Covid-19 discussion, continued...

100% chance he closes bars, restaurants, and gyms next week. 

posted by justincredible

100% chance he closes bars, restaurants, and gyms next week. 

Meanwhile private gatherings - the real reason for uptick in cases - will continue on happening. 

I feel bad for stores now facing the duty to enforce masks on the knuckle draggers that won’t wear one.  Now they can get fined and shut down because Joe Dirt takes his off when he’s in the store.

posted by justincredible

100% chance he closes bars, restaurants, and gyms next week. 

Definitely what’s going to change in a week. I’m going to make sure to enjoy this week of freedom. Hopefully Nevada keeps the bars open for my trip later this month. 

posted by friendfromlowry

Are we really that close to a vaccination? Pfizer said in their press release Monday for 50 million doses in 2020, which I don’t know if that’s best case scenario, or low balling, or pretty spot on realistic? Regardless, it’s a small fraction of the country. We also won’t know who’s been vaccinated, who’s resisting, etc. 

Fauci said "anyone who wants it will get it by the end of April". 

Moderna has a very similar vaccine with likely similar efficacy, and I think we have another 300M doses coming from Astrazeneca.  That is, I believe, only 1 shot.  The other two require two shots....so between those 3 alone I think we have purchased 400M vaccinations already.

It's been said herd immunity might be 60-80% coverage, and some have debated it could be much lower than that.

posted by gut

Fauci said "anyone who wants it will get it by the end of April". 

Moderna has a very similar vaccine with likely similar efficacy, and I think we have another 300M doses coming from Astrazeneca.  That is, I believe, only 1 shot.  The other two require two shots....so between those 3 alone I think we have purchased 400M vaccinations already.

It's been said herd immunity might be 60-80% coverage, and some have debated it could be much lower than that.

Thank you for using "herd immunity" correctly, not in the incorrect context some think it means which is basically "fuck it, open it all". Hint: Sweden's approach was/is NOT "herd immunity".

posted by geeblock

I have to agree w jmog which is rare .. a vaccine being available is a long way away.. seems like we are just delaying the imev

I have to agree with gblock, which is rare.  The governments have strung us along with bullshit for 9 months to justify prolonging restrictions and ultimately a lockdown. I can already tell they are going to dangle the vaccine “carrot” to justify lockdowns and extending them. It’s the same exact playbook they used with “fLatTeN tHe CuRve.” They started with two weeks and then kept extending and extending for 2 more weeks to flatten the curve.  I will be happy to be wrong if the vaccine is being distributed in December, but until then spare me the vaccine bullshit as justification to lock people down and ruin their lives. Especially now that we have more data showing the fatality rate is actually pretty low and still decreasing.

I already said numerous times that masks don’t do what most people think it will do. They help, but 100% compliance was not going to prevent hospitals from avoiding their current status. We have an abundance of countries that have much stricter mask laws and more people following the laws, and yet their hospitals are just as overburdened. I am someone pre-covid (or during covid), that gets pissed when people show up to work sick and/or doesn’t follow common courtesy when sick (I.e. covering mouth when coughing). So, I don’t disagree regarding people being assholes.  Even with the rights people. They have every right to be an asshole, but it doesn’t change their fact that they are being assholes. I still think the sanctimonious mask crowd are more obnoxious than the muh rights crowd. 99% of the former I find to be very hypocritical, because they justify their own arbitrary rules when it’s ok for them to not be 100% compliant. We have plenty on this site. 

posted by like_that

I have to agree with gblock, which is rare.  The governments have strung us along with bullshit for 9 months to justify prolonging restrictions and ultimately a lockdown. I can already tell they are going to dangle the vaccine “carrot” to justify lockdowns and extending them. It’s the same exact playbook they used with “fLatTeN tHe CuRve.” They started with two weeks and then kept extending and extending for 2 more weeks to flatten the curve.  I will be happy to be wrong if the vaccine is being distributed in December, but until then spare me the vaccine bullshit as justification to lock people down and ruin their lives. Especially now that we have more data showing the fatality rate is actually pretty low and still decreasing.

I already said numerous times that masks don’t do what most people think it will do. They help, but 100% compliance was not going to prevent hospitals from avoiding their current status. We have an abundance of countries that have much stricter mask laws and more people following the laws, and yet their hospitals are just as overburdened. I am someone pre-covid (or during covid), that gets pissed when people show up to work sick and/or doesn’t follow common courtesy when sick (I.e. covering mouth when coughing). So, I don’t disagree regarding people being assholes.  Even with the rights people. They have every right to be an asshole, but it doesn’t change their fact that they are being assholes. I still think the sanctimonious mask crowd are more obnoxious than the muh rights crowd. 99% of the former I find to be very hypocritical, because they justify their own arbitrary rules when it’s ok for them to not be 100% compliant. We have plenty on this site. 

Watch out, gut is going to say you are intellectually dishonest, mainly just because he doesn’t agree with you.

One of Biden’s task force members wants a 4-6 week national lockdown. 

I see Ticketmaster is gonna require immunization record of covid to purchase tickets. Everyone is losing their mind. 

Don’t buy tickets from them then?

I bet you others follow suit though. 

I think the problem with lockdowns is multi-fold.

1. They're impossible to fully enforce. When you have jobs deemed essential that aren't pure 8-5 deals, it's not like police can (or would be willing to) just start pulling people over because they're on the road at, say, 6 p.m., so if a person wants to hang out at a friend's or have a small get-together, there's probably a .0001% chance that anything would be done barring a neighbor being one of those "call the cops on 10+ people" narcs. When you take away people who aren't locked down due to having jobs where it's essential to be at the workplace, it's already not going to be a perfect success and then take away the people who have no desire to be cooped up at home all day, every day, it's just going to get worse and worse.

2. At least in Ohio, I think there would be diminishing returns on the success of a lockdown because there already was one and either due to #1 or other factors (or both), it lowered numbers for a few months, only for them to rise a lot when school started and the weather got cooler. Asking people to go through that again, along with the economic ramifications, simply to bandage the wound and provide a bridge to the hypothetical date a vaccine is available isn't going to have the same effect it did in April.

3. This is one of those things where typical vague poli-speak like "flatten the curve" and so forth really isn't going to work with people because it's something that openly effects their lives on a day-to-day basis. If DeWine had initially phrased things bluntly along the lines of "This is the plan: Lockdown for 2 weeks, this stuff will open then, this stuff will open the next week and so on. When everything is opened, we'll reevaluate our progress and determine the next course of action", while using those weeks to plan out said course, things could have worked out more smoothly. Instead, it was week after week of his lame-ass daily briefings (wife's recipes, little kids on Tik Tok, his ties, gotta fill 30+ minutes somehow; MAN, THIS IS SERIOUS!!!!!) filled with generic "we're doing good; we know this is tough; stay the course" lines that only seemed to desensitize people (at least in my general circle) from any potential threat.

posted by Heretic

I think the problem with lockdowns is multi-fold.

1. They're impossible to fully enforce. When you have jobs deemed essential that aren't pure 8-5 deals, it's not like police can (or would be willing to) just start pulling people over because they're on the road at, say, 6 p.m., so if a person wants to hang out at a friend's or have a small get-together, there's probably a .0001% chance that anything would be done barring a neighbor being one of those "call the cops on 10+ people" narcs. When you take away people who aren't locked down due to having jobs where it's essential to be at the workplace, it's already not going to be a perfect success and then take away the people who have no desire to be cooped up at home all day, every day, it's just going to get worse and worse.

2. At least in Ohio, I think there would be diminishing returns on the success of a lockdown because there already was one and either due to #1 or other factors (or both), it lowered numbers for a few months, only for them to rise a lot when school started and the weather got cooler. Asking people to go through that again, along with the economic ramifications, simply to bandage the wound and provide a bridge to the hypothetical date a vaccine is available isn't going to have the same effect it did in April.

3. This is one of those things where typical vague poli-speak like "flatten the curve" and so forth really isn't going to work with people because it's something that openly effects their lives on a day-to-day basis. If DeWine had initially phrased things bluntly along the lines of "This is the plan: Lockdown for 2 weeks, this stuff will open then, this stuff will open the next week and so on. When everything is opened, we'll reevaluate our progress and determine the next course of action", while using those weeks to plan out said course, things could have worked out more smoothly. Instead, it was week after week of his lame-ass daily briefings (wife's recipes, little kids on Tik Tok, his ties, gotta fill 30+ minutes somehow; MAN, THIS IS SERIOUS!!!!!) filled with generic "we're doing good; we know this is tough; stay the course" lines that only seemed to desensitize people (at least in my general circle) from any potential threat.

100% agreed.

Gut will probably say you are intellectually dishonest however, so there's that.

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

I mean... we’ve only done quarantines throughout our entire existence as human beings when pandemics happened, but yeah, people in 2020 are so smart that they know they don’t work. 

posted by gut

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

Now, you are being intellectually dishonest. 

posted by gut

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

Maybe you are reading a completely different thread than the rest of us? Because really none of that was actually said (by anyone not named QO or Spock, I tend to ignore their posts so they might have said it).

posted by gut

Quarantines don't work, masks don't work, the vaccine is a hoax....LMFAO this thread went full Alex Jones.

Talk about intellectually dishonest....

7101 cases today.  

Remember when we laughed at acton for saying 10k cases a day lol. Good times. 

posted by jmog

Talk about intellectually dishonest....

LOL, indeed you are.  You've clowned yourself all over this thread.

The evidence is out there that masks and lockdowns are far more effective than you guys will acknowledge.  And I was right there with you early in the pandemic, but I've changed my opinion as data and research has evolved.  That's what intellectually honest people do.  People who are open-minded let the data guide them, not cherry pick as you've done all over this thread to prop-up you're repeated bad calls.  I don't know if you're actually that uninformed, or just trying way too hard to look smart by being contrarian.

And someone else was just saying we were being strung along with the vaccine.

So, no, my statement was not intellectually dishonest...but you saying it was is you doing it, again.

posted by kizer permanente

7101 cases today.  

Remember when we laughed at acton for saying 10k cases a day lol. Good times. 

Said that would be in mid April though