Sh*thole countries

posted by like_that

Just catching up on the news and read this thread.  A few thoughts:

-No doubt Trump said it and there is no doubt he has said worse behind close doors.  There is also no doubt other presidents have said pretty damning shit behind closed doors.  There is a reason these meetings are behind closed doors.   Only a figure like Trump could make this a story.  No one can prove he said it and you have both sides digging in claiming he did/didnt say it.  The guy who is making the claim has a history of making shit up too.  I hate that style of reporting and I hate when people air out private convos.  No one gave a fuck when it happened to Obama or Bush, because everyone understood the context of private conversations.  This is high school he said/she said drama shit. It's remarkable this is what our journalism has come down to.  This story is porn for the TDS crowd and another reason for trumpers to hate the media.

-I am with gut on this, what Durbin did is a coward move. He knew it would get headlines though, because it is Trump.  Anyone who airs out private convos like that is a coward and lacks integrity imo.  

-Haiti is a shithole. I do find the virtue signaling funny considering the majority of the leftists virtuing say similar things about certain US cities and towns that are outside of NYC, LA, SF, and Chicago.   Just look at the history of this site and the shit posters say (including me) about towns in Ohio.

-I don't see how the comment is racist. Is it because he mentioned Norwary?  If you look at most shithole countries vs high median income countries typically the shithole countries are not white and the higher median countries are white.  Before panties get in a bunch, I am not saying those countries are in those conditions, because of skin color.  It is just a fact.  If you're going to compare a successful country to a shit hole country, the chances are high you're going to compare a predominantly white country to a country that isn't predominantly white. Trump also has provided aid to Haiti with his own money, before he became a presidential candidate.  Rand Paul tries to go to underdevolped (i.e. shithole) countries 4-5 times a year  (during recess) to provide pro bono eye surgeris.  Apparently Trump financed most of Rand's trip to Haiti when he provided pro bono surgeries there. 

-Ptown still getting rattled by quaker and cc still brings the lulz.  

THis x1000.  Presidents should say what they want and how they want in these meetings without someone runnning to a camera and a microphone.  I am sure that the conversations that Obama and Holder or Bush and Cheney were terrible if taken out of context.

To add.....SHouldnt there be a clause in these meetings that people sign off on to not divulge information outisde if just plain policy?  And telling the media this is some sort of treasonous act?

I negotiate contracts and if we talk about meeting information pertaining to the collective agreements we can be sued.

posted by Spock

THis x1000.  Presidents should say what they want and how they want in these meetings without someone runnning to a camera and a microphone.  I am sure that the conversations that Obama and Holder or Bush and Cheney were terrible if taken out of context.

 

 

I was young, but i recall Bush on a hot mic telling cheney that some reporter was an asshole (or whatever deragatory insult).  This at least was caught on mic, and I think that got less publicity than what Trump allegeldy said behind closed doors.  

There are a lot of hot mic moments for presidents that got less attention than this.  It brings the lulz.  

posted by like_that

Just catching up on the news and read this thread.  A few thoughts:

-No doubt Trump said it and there is no doubt he has said worse behind close doors.  There is also no doubt other presidents have said pretty damning shit behind closed doors.  There is a reason these meetings are behind closed doors.   Only a figure like Trump could make this a story.  No one can prove he said it and you have both sides digging in claiming he did/didnt say it.  The guy who is making the claim has a history of making shit up too.  I hate that style of reporting and I hate when people air out private convos.  No one gave a fuck when it happened to Obama or Bush, because everyone understood the context of private conversations.  This is high school he said/she said drama shit. It's remarkable this is what our journalism has come down to.  This story is porn for the TDS crowd and another reason for trumpers to hate the media.

-I am with gut on this, what Durbin did is a coward move. He knew it would get headlines though, because it is Trump.  Anyone who airs out private convos like that is a coward and lacks integrity imo.  

-Haiti is a shithole. I do find the virtue signaling funny considering the majority of the leftists virtuing say similar things about certain US cities and towns that are outside of NYC, LA, SF, and Chicago.   Just look at the history of this site and the shit posters say (including me) about towns in Ohio.

-I don't see how the comment is racist. Is it because he mentioned Norwary?  If you look at most shithole countries vs high median income countries typically the shithole countries are not white and the higher median countries are white.  Before panties get in a bunch, I am not saying those countries are in those conditions, because of skin color.  It is just a fact.  If you're going to compare a successful country to a shit hole country, the chances are high you're going to compare a predominantly white country to a country that isn't predominantly white. Trump also has provided aid to Haiti with his own money, before he became a presidential candidate.  Rand Paul tries to go to underdevolped (i.e. shithole) countries 4-5 times a year  (during recess) to provide pro bono eye surgeris.  Apparently Trump financed most of Rand's trip to Haiti when he provided pro bono surgeries there. 

-Ptown still getting rattled by quaker and cc still brings the lulz.  

You're making very good points here. I guess I really do get caught up in my dislike of the guy. But even at that, I don't usually comment on his stuff unless I think about it at least a little bit. I have tried to be fair to him once, twice or maybe three times. I still think he brings much of the negative upon himself. But I also know that about 1/2 of the country is in the thralls of TDS, and because of that, they just keep flinging the same buzzwords about: racist, homophobe, islamophobe, mysogynist, etc.

I know that I've said before for people to just keep an eye on their calendars because his Presidency will be over before we know it. But the more time that goes by and the more we see mass hysteria going on, the more concerned I am that we will see a repeat of this last shocker election. 

posted by like_that

Just catching up on the news and read this thread.  A few thoughts:

-No doubt Trump said it and there is no doubt he has said worse behind close doors.  There is also no doubt other presidents have said pretty damning shit behind closed doors.  There is a reason these meetings are behind closed doors.   Only a figure like Trump could make this a story.  No one can prove he said it and you have both sides digging in claiming he did/didnt say it.  The guy who is making the claim has a history of making shit up too.  I hate that style of reporting and I hate when people air out private convos.  No one gave a fuck when it happened to Obama or Bush, because everyone understood the context of private conversations.  This is high school he said/she said drama shit. It's remarkable this is what our journalism has come down to.  This story is porn for the TDS crowd and another reason for trumpers to hate the media.

-I am with gut on this, what Durbin did is a coward move. He knew it would get headlines though, because it is Trump.  Anyone who airs out private convos like that is a coward and lacks integrity imo.  

-Haiti is a shithole. I do find the virtue signaling funny considering the majority of the leftists virtuing say similar things about certain US cities and towns that are outside of NYC, LA, SF, and Chicago.   Just look at the history of this site and the shit posters say (including me) about towns in Ohio.

-I don't see how the comment is racist. Is it because he mentioned Norwary?  If you look at most shithole countries vs high median income countries typically the shithole countries are not white and the higher median countries are white.  Before panties get in a bunch, I am not saying those countries are in those conditions, because of skin color.  It is just a fact.  If you're going to compare a successful country to a shit hole country, the chances are high you're going to compare a predominantly white country to a country that isn't predominantly white. Trump also has provided aid to Haiti with his own money, before he became a presidential candidate.  Rand Paul tries to go to underdevolped (i.e. shithole) countries 4-5 times a year  (during recess) to provide pro bono eye surgeris.  Apparently Trump financed most of Rand's trip to Haiti when he provided pro bono surgeries there. 

-Ptown still getting rattled by quaker and cc still brings the lulz.  

My exact thoughts that I mistakenly spread over many posts.

Those that are outraged over this but weren't outraged over similar distasteful things Obama or Bush or Clinton said are just that, selectively outraged or at worst hypocritical.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

This thread went as I expected. 

His comments were pretty damn bad, but everyone went into their respective corners on the issue.

I just have one question for really Quaker and Spock. 

Is there really any way to properly criticize the President? Or, is there any real way that would say, yelp, that was dumb Trump and he was wrong? 

It just seems the President can do no wrong in your guys eyes. 

Says the guy who spun every negative story about Obama.  

posted by CenterBHSFan

You're making very good points here. I guess I really do get caught up in my dislike of the guy. But even at that, I don't usually comment on his stuff unless I think about it at least a little bit. I have tried to be fair to him once, twice or maybe three times. I still think he brings much of the negative upon himself. But I also know that about 1/2 of the country is in the thralls of TDS, and because of that, they just keep flinging the same buzzwords about: racist, homophobe, islamophobe, mysogynist, etc.

I know that I've said before for people to just keep an eye on their calendars because his Presidency will be over before we know it. But the more time that goes by and the more we see mass hysteria going on, the more concerned I am that we will see a repeat of this last shocker election. 

Without actually empircal data lol, I would say Trump brings it upon himself 90-95% of the time.  I would love to see an alternate universe where he would just STFU (that includes twitter)  and see what the landscape would be like.   Even when he has a couple good weeks, he ruins it by one tweet.  It puts true conservatives in a shitty sitatuation where when they actually want to give Trump props for doing things that conservatives like (i.e. cutting regulations and taxes), they can't really do it because he comes out and says something so fucking idiotic/controversial and is generally a shitty person.  This story however imo Trump did not bring upon himself.   Even if he did say it (again, I say he most likely did), it was a convo he didn't expect the dirty laundry to be aired out.  

It's also a slippery slope.  Are we going to start reporting all the dity laundry for closed door conversations and take it for 100% truth?  

^^  agreed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5lcART6TTE

Jesse Jackson praising and thanking Trump ............. I did not see this replay on CNN last night :) 

I've been to a number of those countries that he is referring to.

Why do they want to come here?

Because we are looked up to as the best place in the world to live.  It's that simple.  

I've talked to many of them.

A number of them have lived and were educated in the US and returned to their homelands to be a part of the solution in their countries.   They could have stayed but decided to go back. 

A couple even stated they preferred the lifestyle in their so called shithole places.   They get up, self sustain, go to bed.   Repeat.   Some felt that life was better than the lifestyle here.

With that said.....Trump needs to be more Presidential.  If he woild just allow the economy, unemployment numbers just speak for his legacy instead of saying stupid shit weekly he woild be better off

posted by like_that

It's also a slippery slope.  Are we going to start reporting all the dity laundry for closed door conversations and take it for 100% truth?  

The DHS secretary testified that what struck her about the meeting was the amount of profanity that was used by nearly everyone in the room.  Thing is these things are put out there out of context of the whole private conversation to paint a particular narrative.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/chuck-schumer-to-colbert-trumps-comments-nothing-but-racist

Chuck Schumer makes it pretty clear what is afoot here.

Actions speak louder than words. If you want to just begin the long road back to proving you’re not racist or bigoted, support the bipartisan compromise three Democrats and three Republicans put on the floor, everyone gave, and get the DREAMers safety here in America. That’s what he should do.”

“If this bill doesn’t become law, there will only be one thing standing in its way and that’s Donald Trump and his intransigence

posted by thavoice

With that said.....Trump needs to be more Presidential.  

And therein lies the problem. He's not going to be. He has brief flashes of acting presidential, but for the most part he certainly is not. And that is where the eye-rolling comes in. We keep expecting it. I laughingly wonder who is more insane - him for repeating this behavior or us expecting a tiger to change his stripes.

posted by majorspark

The DHS secretary testified that what struck her about the meeting was the amount of profanity that was used by nearly everyone in the room.  Thing is these things are put out there out of context of the whole private conversation to paint a particular narrative.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/chuck-schumer-to-colbert-trumps-comments-nothing-but-racist

Chuck Schumer makes it pretty clear what is afoot here.

Actions speak louder than words. If you want to just begin the long road back to proving you’re not racist or bigoted, support the bipartisan compromise three Democrats and three Republicans put on the floor, everyone gave, and get the DREAMers safety here in America. That’s what he should do.”

“If this bill doesn’t become law, there will only be one thing standing in its way and that’s Donald Trump and his intransigence

Exactly .......right out of the dem playbook as usual.  Trump told them to take a hike; they can't believe it.  The dems have proven for 8 years, especially when they had full control, that they don't want daca ...........they can pound salt.  Refreshing change for once. 

posted by jmog

You show your obvious bias by calling Trump’s statement racist and Obama’s you deflect/defend when they were essentially the same statement made about a COUNTRY neither said anything about the PEOPLE. 

There is no bias because your example to #BlameObama in beautiful #BlameBush fashion is not even a comparable incident. Mind you, I don't even care about Trump's comment - just another smh moment - and everyone gets the vapors and people call Trump racist and blah, blah. blah but again Obama referring to the aftermath of Gaddafi's ouster as a shit show is not comparable in any respect to Trump referring to nations as Shitholes. 

http://www.snopes.com/obama-called-libya-a-sht-show-and-media-was-silent/

posted by like_that

Without actually empircal data lol, I would say Trump brings it upon himself 90-95% of the time.  

I often wonder this.  I DO actually believe Trump is below average intelligence, although he's a natural at branding/marketing (i.e. the paid professional version of trolling).

Conservative media often talked about how Obama might manufacture drama/controversy/distractions, and I think Trump does the same.  It's hard for me to believe given what an idiot I think he is.....but LOL think the simple answer is Trump is a mudder - and if you want get down in the mud with him, as the media and Dems keep falling for, you're going to lose.

Anyway, I think we can all picture Trump making those comments (and worse).  But I'm sitting here wondering if it was deliberate - Durbin took the bait hook, like and sinker.  And now DACA could be scuttled....and the brilliance, likely unintentional, of it all is voters will likely punish Dems more than they will Repubs for not getting DACA done.

All we've heard is how Trump is going to destroy the planet and be Putin's puppet...and he keeps baiting the Dems and liberal media, but whether he deserves credit or not the economy/jobs are looking pretty good.  Point is, Dems went all-in on the unfit doomsday hysteria but, come election time, things have been getting done and going pretty well.

I'm convinced he & his people are feeding a large part of the fake news bubble and the liberal media keeps falling for it - they're talking very little, certainly not honestly, about actual policy.  And they keep getting taken on so much BS that they don't have credibility when they actually try to do journalism.

posted by jmog

100% wrong, but don’t let your obvious bias get in your way...they said the same thing about a country, not its people. Only one of them is being called a racist for it. 

Context matters. The incidents are completely different. You're too smart to be this dumb on an issue so stupid. 

posted by gut

Yes, it is a problem.  One you're apparently blind to becauseof your hatred for the POTUS.  It's a private conversation, and likely privileged. They are shithole countries, and Durbin made it an official public statement.  Total dickhead, partisan move.  Trump can be an asshole for saying and believing it, while Durbin can still an asshole for how he handled it.

In the typical trainwreck/sensationalist coverage of this, everyone seems to be ignoring how Durbin made a huge break with protocol.  Closed door negotiations are rarely discussed publicly, and it's EXTREMELY rare to directly attribute comments to anyone, much less the POTUS.  That those conversations "don't leave the room" is critical to open and honest communications to progress toward compromise - Durbin just took a giant crap on that and no one cares?

As for "racist", Trump is just whining about the imbalance (real or imagined) between poor and uneducated immigrants from 3rd world countries vs. those from developed OECD countries.  I don't know if there actually is an imbalance (I doubt it), but it's hardly a position without merit, much less racist.

Agree the coverage has been hysterical but dude - Durbin wasn't even the guy who leaked it! He just confirmed it. It was probably one of Trump's own aides who leaked it to pump up his base. 

Durbin CONFIRMS Trump's shithole remarks

And for what it's worth - the way you carry water for Trump in the completely opposite unhinged way you used rage about Obummer is very entertaining. I'm starting to think you might have even voted for the guy in secret! 

posted by jmog

Actually so far everyone else at the meeting has denied hearing any such comment. 

 

And as a reminder, Durban is the one that said a republican senator said they “couldn’t even look at Obama” in a similar closed door meeting

 

The Obama admin and everyone else at the meeting denied it happened. 

 

He has a past of making crap up against Rs out of closed door meetings. 

Read the original reports. The Senator's didn't leak it. They were anonymous sources and if I had to bet they were Trump's own staff which has been leaking like crazy since day 1 - probably trying to make him seem tough. Hence his initial tweet wherein he didn't deny it and agreed he used tough language. 

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/11/politics/immigrants-shithole-countries-trump/index.html

He was pandering to his base because he knows Gut and Jmog will carry his water while he pumps up Spock. Sadly, the Democrats fall for this trolling which is where he really is a master. 

posted by gut

LMFAO...two negs from two of the biggest useful idiots on this site.

And it's BIPARTISAN!!!!   One from the left, one from the right.  I kind of feel like that's validation for what I said.

Maybe one day Gut we will be all as cool as a guy breathlessly calling strangers libtards and idiots on a message board lol. 

posted by gut

You have to live in a completey alternate universe to think it's equivalent, on Fox News or anywhere else.  You have to go deep in the bowels of right-wing dark web to see the same unhinged lying and overreaction wrt Obam as you get with Trump on MAINSTREAM media.

And I say that as someone who thinks Trump is an embarassing retard.  If you want me to stop calling you a libtard, then stop being one.

You must have stock in Fox. Of course just a small sampling of Fox News showing liberal cable news channels how to act hysterical toward a President! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODATXu_2m-c

http://video.foxnews.com/v/4139297/?#sp=show-clips

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2009/02/05/obama-stimulus-package-really-socialism.html

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2014/07/24/bill-oreilly-obamacare-and-socialism.html