Progressives, part 3...

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Hey, I am not saying the Ds are blameless here, just that that at least they are putting forth an effort to care. 

 

There are elements in both parties that truly care.  Their leaderships however care more about power. 

posted by majorspark

When you pull a 20 out of your wallet how do you feel? 

The eeevil dems is major’s answer to everything. You hate to see it. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Even more reason for it to be phased out and not celebrated or used in today's society. 

Why are you offended by words? You're the only person I've ever heard of offended by the word Antebellum. Which is why I found it funny they were changing their name to appease people who don't exist, as a virtue signal. 

posted by gut

But can tearing down antebellum homes - a.k.a plantations - be far off?  Agree "Lady Plantation" would have been a terrible name for a band.

The big discussion/ disagreement now isn't on keeping plantations, but on having events there. A lot of money is being made in the wedding industry at some of the plantations around here, and the argument is should old plantations that once had slaves be used in that sort of celebration (Ryan Reynolds got married at one down here in Charleston and apologized for it 2 weeks ago). There are at least 6 plantations around here, and all of them do a good job in depicting what it was like back then and the horrid conditions there were for slaves. Unfortunately, without being able to hold events, I'm not sure how many would survive.

During the protests 2 weeks ago, there were a lot of threats about people wanting to loot/ burn down the plantations. 

Are they privately owned? 

posted by iclfan2

Why are you offended by words? You're the only person I've ever heard of offended by the word Antebellum. Which is why I found it funny they were changing their name to appease people who don't exist, as a virtue signal. 

posted by gut

But can tearing down antebellum homes - a.k.a plantations - be far off?  Agree "Lady Plantation" would have been a terrible name for a band.

The big discussion/ disagreement now isn't on keeping plantations, but on having events there. A lot of money is being made in the wedding industry at some of the plantations around here, and the argument is should old plantations that once had slaves be used in that sort of celebration (Ryan Reynolds got married at one down here in Charleston and apologized for it 2 weeks ago). There are at least 6 plantations around here, and all of them do a good job in depicting what it was like back then and the horrid conditions there were for slaves. Unfortunately, without being able to hold events, I'm not sure how many would survive.

During the protests 2 weeks ago, there were a lot of threats about people wanting to loot/ burn down the plantations. 

 

Oh no, the plantations that bought and sold slaves won’t be able to survive. Darn lol 

Whats next, auschwitz isn’t accepting anymore wedding and we’re concerned about it’s financial future??

posted by justincredible

Are they privately owned? 

Yes, so I'm not sure how anyone would stop them unless people stopped booking weddings. It's just a newer argument we've been hearing coming up in the past couple of years.

posted by SportsAndLady

Oh no, the plantations that bought and sold slaves won’t be able to survive. Darn lol 

Whats next, auschwitz isn’t accepting anymore wedding and we’re concerned about it’s financial future??

I mean they are historical sites that hundreds of thousands of people go to every year to learn about the history. I might have phrased it wrong, but there is only one that has the most weddings and they would probably survive still as they are a working farm too. 
 

posted by SportsAndLady

Oh no, the plantations that bought and sold slaves won’t be able to survive. Darn lol 

Whats next, auschwitz isn’t accepting anymore wedding and we’re concerned about it’s financial future??

Then we should not pick and choose. America itself was built on slavery, let's disband. Let's "cancel" the founders. Or maybe we could recognize that all of the historically most powerful nations on Earth had horrible evils, but we're actually the first of them to give a fuck about recognizing them and changing, albeit slowly.

Whole lot of talk about the slavery of a century and a half ago, but not one word about the slavery of today. Sounds pretty political as opposed to genuine caring.

posted by queencitybuckeye

Then we should not pick and choose. America itself was built on slavery, let's disband. Let's "cancel" the founders. Or maybe we could recognize that all of the historically most powerful nations on Earth had horrible evils, but we're actually the first of them to give a fuck about recognizing them and changing, albeit slowly.

Whole lot of talk about the slavery of a century and a half ago, but not one word about the slavery of today. Sounds pretty political as opposed to genuine caring.

Yeah, idk what extreme measure you’re taking that to, but all I’m saying is I’m not gonna cry over a plantation not being able to book weddings at its venue. 

posted by SportsAndLady

Yeah, idk what extreme measure you’re taking that to, but all I’m saying is I’m not gonna cry over a plantation not being able to book weddings at its venue. 

I think we understand that you're not going to cry over anything going on now, or ever.

posted by SportsAndLady

Oh no, the plantations that bought and sold slaves won’t be able to survive. Darn lol 

Whats next, auschwitz isn’t accepting anymore wedding and we’re concerned about it’s financial future??

So a place that shows how evil and bad slavery was should be shut down because it actually shows slavery? 

You can't be serious SnL, I know you are trolling but at least show some semblance of reality.

Why can’t people disagree with each other without resorting to cheap insults? 

posted by jmog

So a place that shows how evil and bad slavery was should be shut down because it actually shows slavery? SnL goes full retard once again.

Lol, yes. Southerners are having their weddings at plantations to show evil slavery was!

posted by majorspark

When you pull a 20 out of your wallet how do you feel? 

"Time to get beer!!!!", assuming that is close enough to count as a feeling.

Just so we're clear - no one is saying the houses themselves owned slaves?

A lot of old mansions in many towns are historical sites because of the architectural significance.  Some have been turned into parks.  With the added historical significance, I'm not sure why antebellum homes should be destroyed.  As for weddings, I imagine people choose them for the scenery and not as a celebration of slavery.  Most people don't know a rich person with a nice backyard they can use.

But, yeah, most of the developed world had slaves so I'm not sure where you draw the line about erasing history and destroying monuments.  There are plenty of books and history about slavery - every street named after a slave owner doesn't need a plaque saying he was actually a bad guy.

posted by gut

Just so we're clear - no one is saying the houses themselves owned slaves?

A lot of old mansions in many towns are historical sites because of the architectural significance.  Some have been turned into parks.  With the added historical significance, I'm not sure why antebellum homes should be destroyed.  As for weddings, I imagine people choose them for the scenery and not as a celebration of slavery.  Most people don't know a rich person with a nice backyard they can use.

But, yeah, most of the developed world had slaves so I'm not sure where you draw the line about erasing history and destroying monuments.  There are plenty of books and history about slavery - every street named after a slave owner doesn't need a plaque saying he was actually a bad guy.

Neither did those statues that were torn down.  Or colleges, military bases or cemeteries that people want renamed.

posted by Spock

Because 99.9% of the US population doesnt know any origins to the name nor do they care.

Maybe that is the problem. 

posted by majorspark

I think ptown meant "phased out" in the context of its use in glorifying the prewar South. Not its literal meaning.  That is how I took it.

Correct. The word and any reference to that aspect of southern life and style should be left to the museums, history books to be placed in its proper context. 

posted by majorspark

Has the Democrat party as a whole ever apologized for being on the wrong side of history?

Not sure the DNC as actually done that, just over the years some individual ones have. Good point though. 

posted by majorspark

When you pull a 20 out of your wallet how do you feel? 

I think it should be Harriet Tubman on there? Andrew Jackson is a complicated figure and President and may not be best of the $20. 

posted by majorspark

There are elements in both parties that truly care.  Their leaderships however care more about power. 

Perhaps. But, I know the modern parties that were really created during the 80s, of them the Ds usually have more representation of the African American community and people than the Rs. The fact that Tim Scott is the only African American in the R party in Congress reflects that. 

posted by iclfan2

Why are you offended by words? You're the only person I've ever heard of offended by the word Antebellum. Which is why I found it funny they were changing their name to appease people who don't exist, as a virtue signal. 

posted by gut

But can tearing down antebellum homes - a.k.a plantations - be far off?  Agree "Lady Plantation" would have been a terrible name for a band.

The big discussion/ disagreement now isn't on keeping plantations, but on having events there. A lot of money is being made in the wedding industry at some of the plantations around here, and the argument is should old plantations that once had slaves be used in that sort of celebration (Ryan Reynolds got married at one down here in Charleston and apologized for it 2 weeks ago). There are at least 6 plantations around here, and all of them do a good job in depicting what it was like back then and the horrid conditions there were for slaves. Unfortunately, without being able to hold events, I'm not sure how many would survive.

During the protests 2 weeks ago, there were a lot of threats about people wanting to loot/ burn down the plantations. 

 

posted by iclfan2

Yes, so I'm not sure how anyone would stop them unless people stopped booking weddings. It's just a newer argument we've been hearing coming up in the past couple of years.

posted by SportsAndLady

Oh no, the plantations that bought and sold slaves won’t be able to survive. Darn lol 

Whats next, auschwitz isn’t accepting anymore wedding and we’re concerned about it’s financial future??

I mean they are historical sites that hundreds of thousands of people go to every year to learn about the history. I might have phrased it wrong, but there is only one that has the most weddings and they would probably survive still as they are a working farm too. 
 

 

Offended? Nah. As I said, that aspect of southern culture/ lifestyle needs to be placed in its correct context and not really celebrated today.

I do think the south and southern culture needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and reevaluate everything that they talk about when they talk about a southern way of life, or southern charm. How much of that is rooted in the backs of slavery or Jim Crow? If we are really going to address African American inequality and issues, it all comes into play.  It seems like that is happening at some level, but it needs to continue. 

I do know a lot of those plantations have weddings. I visited Boone Hall, I think it is called, down there in Charleston. I agree the ones down there generally do a good job at explaining the history.  Hosting weddings is tricky as I do see the need for some of those plantations to have them to stay open. But, then again, if the wedding is just perpetuating the southern stereotype that is rooted in the times of slavery or Jim Crow, maybe it is not a bad thing that those places just become museums and art places.  

posted by queencitybuckeye

Then we should not pick and choose. America itself was built on slavery, let's disband. Let's "cancel" the founders. Or maybe we could recognize that all of the historically most powerful nations on Earth had horrible evils, but we're actually the first of them to give a fuck about recognizing them and changing, albeit slowly.

Whole lot of talk about the slavery of a century and a half ago, but not one word about the slavery of today. Sounds pretty political as opposed to genuine caring.

Let's start with the love of the Confederate items first and then have those other discussions. Lumping all these together I think oversimplifies things. The founding fathers are a whole different discussion. 

Ok...on your last point sure....

posted by Spock

Neither did those statues that were torn down.  Or colleges, military bases or cemeteries that people want renamed.

Colleges and Cemeteries? Who is saying that? 
 

LOL.

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/lady-antebellum-lady-a-country-blues-1013919/

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I do know a lot of those plantations have weddings. I visited Boone Hall, I think it is called, down there in Charleston. I agree the ones down there generally do a good job at explaining the history.  Hosting weddings is tricky as I do see the need for some of those plantations to have them to stay open. But, then again, if the wedding is just perpetuating the southern stereotype that is rooted in the times of slavery or Jim Crow, maybe it is not a bad thing that those places just become museums and art places. 

I just don't get why weddings at a plantation offends people, especially ones hundreds of miles away.  Number one, if the ceremony is somehow perpetuating the southern stereotype I very much doubt the location matters.  Number two, I doubt people are choosing a plantation for the sake of having a wedding on a plantation - it's about space, the landscapes and backdrops.

Finally, if these plantations are state/county owned, then why is raising public funds from weddings a bad thing?  They're not selling a reminder of slavery, they're renting out a public park.  Let me see - preserve our history so we can educate people, but cancel events that might be self-funding in favor of...higher taxes?

If it offends people so much, then designate a few plantations as historic places and privatize any others that are publicly owned.  The private owners can then do whatever the hell they want - if someone wants to tear it down, then come up with the money to buy it.

You have to draw the line somewhere (LOL some far left writer a year or two ago wrote how she was triggered by walking in the forest, because trees = lynching).  I get statues and monuments because they are direct references to specific people.  But FFS the land and house are innocent.

posted by justincredible

LOL.

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/lady-antebellum-lady-a-country-blues-1013919/

Ooops.  LOL talk about stepping on your dick...