On Jun 27, 2022:

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 05:44 pm

On the decision today, I have no problem with a coach praying after a game, not forcing it on kids, and not punishing kids that do not participate.

You see coaches and players routinely praying before and after games. I see this as no difference. Osu and pro players do it all the time. 

As someone else said pages ago, it is freedom of religion, not from religion.

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 05:41 pm
posted by like_that

I don't agree with any of these things happening, and based on the average view of abortion I think you will be hard pressed to find many people who agree with any of it.   The problem is, these debates should have started 50 years ago vs legislating from the bench.  My guess in 50 years, laws would have been passed/reversed/amended/etc as society learned more about abortions.  This goes along the lines of what information is available and how the average view of abortion has changed with readily availably facts.  Instead, NOW is when the conversation is just beginning and we all are going to have to go through these growing pains that should have started a long time ago. 

Personally speaking, I think 99% of abortions are morally fucked up.  I understand and I am ok with the reasons being brought up in this thread for emotional appeal (rape, incest, dying, etc), however the reality is that those reasons a barely a blip on the radar for abortions and I believe a lot of people use "women's rights" as a shield for debate. 

Politically speaking, despite a few posters all of a sudden pretending to care about individual liberties, if you want to use a libertarian argument, libertarianism is about self autonomy and property rights + the non aggression principle.  If you actually understand this (most here don't), then you can understand why a libertarian (or someone who holds a lot of libertarian views) would extend these rights to a defenseless life in someone's body.  This is especially true for those that believe life begins at conception.  Most of us believe this is true for every other animal on the planet, but apparently can't grasp this for humans.   With that being said, nobody is ever going to be happy with this debate.  This is why I believe (and hope) every state aligns with Europe and allows abortions in the first trimester.   This is in line with what most people in the US are comfortable with and it's the best compromise. 

Edit: I could be wrong, but I think the votes are there to codify abortions up to the first trimester. Dems have failed to do this in the last 50 years.   I think some Rs would vote in favor of it too. 

Good post. I think while we agree a lot of posters won't agree with those items that could be banned, several states are moving in that direction. 

I also understand those thoughts and agree with your thoughts on the EU policy as an option. But, that is not the current policy Republicans are pursuing in more and more states.

Maybe you could have passed a nationwide law 10 or so years ago, but zero chance now. I do think liberals will be doing a lot reflection on how they failed, focusing on the courts instead of statehouses and Congress, because now they are completely unprepared.

On the other hand, the rights pro life movement post Roe is now one of the most successful grassroots movements in American history. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 05:19 pm
posted by jmog

Just like any other rights, the life has rights until their rights attack someone else’s.

So in the case of severe health/life/death of the mother absolutely abortion should be legal. 

My wife is even more prolife than I am, and tried to make me promise if that type of decision ever came serious with any of our children that I would choose to save our baby and not save her.

I lied to her and said “ok” but I would have never been able to truly choose the baby over her at that point. I know that’s “hypocritical” of a prolifer but that’s reality. 

The problem for most left wingers, like yourself, is that the left used to be “safe legal and rare” for cases like your wife, rape, etc.

Once the left started going to “9 months, after the birth for a few hours, etc” it’s still ok to abort the far right really fought back and this is where we are.

People like your wife may have to travel to another state if she wants an abortion.

When the left started being ok with killing already born infants the far right fought back.

You can blame your own side to be honest.

Plan B should be legal, I would never be ok with it in my own life but I also understand the need.

My wife, again far more prolife than I am, wouldn’t be against plan B being illegal.

Sensible post. However, don't lump me in with crazy liberals on abortion as I am not lumping you in with most conservatives who are pushing a lot of the policies you say you are against. 

I think your history is a little off as the pro life movement started the moment Roe was ruled and took off with the rise of the evangelical movement in the early 80s. 

My own views are a mix of my up bringing in southern Ohio, abortion should be legal, but safe, rare, and legal. There should be an option at the very least.

I largely agree with your thoughts on exceptions. The problem is, you are now outside the norm of the conservative movement in states like Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Idaho, and maybe others, Ohio included. 

I think it is also a little naive to think the pro life movement is all high and mighty while the pro choice movement was going too far. We are seeing in states how far they can go, and they are against what you are stating. 

On Jun 26, 2022:

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 11:06 am

I also ask if posters on here are in favor of the following, because these are all now issues on the table here and being discussed currently in other states. 

Full bans with no exceptions.

Criminal charging abortion providers in state and anyone that helps someone travel out of state.

Banning Plan B.

Banning IUDs 

Banning the use of the drug that is ordered through the mail.

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 10:59 am
posted by kizer permanente

Sorry Schmidt and Becker are Reps. 

Point remains unchanged. We have law makers voting on legislation for us that they don’t fully understand what they’re voting on. 

It will be interesting to see if those bills pass because they are really outside the norm of public opinion here in Ohio and offer little to no carve outs for exceptions.

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 10:57 am
posted by jmog

Given that biology says life begins at conception, that life has value and has rights. That’s not opinion  

Where do those rights begin? That question is now on the table. How far are you willing to go? 

Are you in support of banning plan B now? 

Now, states have to answer those questions. 

You also make a general statement on health of the mother. But, are you in favor of a carve out for a woman to get an abortion if she gets pregnant after 6 weeks and is told by her doctor she cannot carry to full term? 

I ask because that is my wife...and now she is faced with having to even entertain this is fucked up.

On Jun 24, 2022:

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 07:52 pm
posted by gut

LMFAO.  Yes, I know women who have had complications and also abortions for other reasons.  Get out of here with that high and mighty bullshit that people that disagree with you don't know any women who suffered with these decisions. 

It also has fuck all to do with the point that getting pregnant involves a choice (except in cases of rape).  And I'm being deliberately facetious when I say that - for a self-proclaimed moderate, you tend to take statements overly personal and overly literally.  Then usually follow with some pretentious response that indicates you think you're more worldly or enlightened than other posters on the board.

But, sure, if this is the sex education thread now, young women can miss multiple periods, and obviously might not start showing for 3+ months.  So you don't have to know women who didn't know they were pregnant after 6 weeks when you KNOW it happens to women sometimes even after 3 months.  Of course, "not knowing" has never been an accepted excuse when it comes to the law.  And, frankly, any sexually active woman who misses a period and chooses not to get a pregnancy test shouldn't be able to plead ignorance.

Look man. This just got very personal for me here. I've been exposed to the challenges and issues relating to this in my own family. My wife is now in a situation where we are unclear if she is pregnant, will she be able to safety carry to term. 

Under the new law here in Ohio that just went effect, if it is after 6 weeks, we will have to travel out of state.

My wife has also read the new potential language and involves doctors that may not or do not know her medical history to help her make the decision.  Mind you my story is not alone. 

And for people that say oh you can move. We made the choice to move back for family reasons and cannot just move out of state. 

Your view and others on here are just narrow and filled with your own assumptions of who gets abortions and why. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 05:50 pm
posted by iclfan2

To your second point, sure, most find out officially after that, doctors won’t even see you until 8 weeks. But there are numerous ways to not get pregnant. Condoms, birth control, etc, don’t have sex if you can’t deal with the repercussions. This isn’t for Jenny on the block folk, but the normal white woke ones. As for the first part, abortion restrictions have nothing to do with ectopic pregnancies or non viable pregnancies, don’t get your news off social media. And yes, I have 2 kids and know how it works and doesn’t work. 

And this is where you are narrow. My views are informed by my family experiences and what can and does go wrong during a pregnancy.

I also know depending on the language of the laws here in Ohio, my wife, who has medical conditions, may or may not be eligible for an abortion. So, I know, and that is my concern.

On another note, credit to Dewine. He is talking the talk, but I have a fear the statehouse will not follow through.

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 05:34 pm
posted by gut

Or don't get pregnant.  Pretty simple, really.

No it is not.

It's a complicated issue that is not cut and dry as you think it is. 

Have you or others on here actually spoken to women that have had complications during a pregnancy? 

How many on here know women that have found out they were pregnant after six weeks? 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 03:49 pm
posted by like_that

Breaking news: It's more beneficial to live in some states v.s. other states. 

Correct. I did have a few friends and colleagues point out this may impact businesses either not moving into red states, or paying for their employees to leave the state if requested. 

I also am curious how the military will handle this with rotations to bases in the states that outlaw or really restrict abortion. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 02:55 pm
posted by like_that

It was like this well before this decision. 

If by that you you it widens the gap, then yeah. This now leads to states enacting more restrictions and outright bans. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 02:28 pm
posted by iclfan2

We know you’re educated. It’s very obvious how not to get pregnant. 

It is not that simple. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 02:14 pm
posted by majorspark

Is there something wrong with this?

About to find out.

I know my wife is concerned about her access here in Ohio. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Progressives, part 3..." at 01:15 pm
posted by iclfan2

Libs biiiiig mad today!! AOC and others already calling for “insurrections”. Get your popcorn ready. 

Well, the leak was 100% right. The decision also contradicts everything about settled law that the conservative justices stated in their confirmation hearings. 

Liberals screamed back in 2016 Roe v. Wade was going away, and they turned out being right. 

Also, Justice Thomas opinion, just being his, but is everything liberals fear, which is a roll back on other protections. 

Now, we have a land where it is have and have not states. It is about to be outlawed after 6 weeks here in Ohio with minimal to no exceptions.

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Disgusted with the Biden administration" at 01:12 pm

Loving the backbending logic here...

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Disgusted with the Biden administration" at 12:48 pm

It's bad no doubt. But, it was crickets on here when Trump's notes were way worse.

But, oh we all hate Trump blah blah. 

And before this gets taken out of context. I said, this is a bad look for Biden. I am being consistent as both the look for Biden and Trump on notes are horrible. 

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Disgusted with the Biden administration" at 10:30 am
posted by geeblock

If dewine did the same with the state gas tax along with the Biden plan that would make a diff

Except he knows it is dumb. Ohio increased their gas tax a few years ago to pay for improving infrastructure. 

ODOT needs the funds to help improve and grow various infrastructure projects including the Brent Spence Bridge. 

On Jun 23, 2022:

ptown_trojans_1 repped a post in "Oscar Mercado is Gone (A Story of The 2022 Cleveland Guardians)" at 03:50 pm

Holy shit, what a win!

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Disgusted with the Biden administration" at 03:44 pm
posted by QuakerOats

Does the federal government (under leftists) overregulate through the use of force and create a hostile environment within which to operate?

That is not communism...

ptown_trojans_1 replied to "Gas prices thread" at 01:51 pm
posted by QuakerOats

Felling lucky or something ?

Just posting the price there..



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