Why no school shooter thread?

posted by queencitybuckeye

That the cop with a gun failed doesn't mean other people in the building shouldn't be armed, it means more should be. We need to stop the idea that we have no part to play in our own defense. We are the primary players in that.

I'm just challenging the idea that arming teacher is going to be a significant deterrent.  The most effective thing that can be done is lock schools down and be vigilant about who you let in the building. 

Do we really want to trust these people with guns when they can't even monitor/control who has access to their campus?

posted by MontyBrunswick

lets arm every convenience store clerk while we're at it. they're way more likely to encounter someone with a gun than a teacher is.

This is actually quite common.

posted by Automatik

This is actually quite common.

Common but not mandatory. Make it mandatory

posted by MontyBrunswick

lets arm every convenience store clerk while we're at it. they're way more likely to encounter someone with a gun than a teacher is.

Many are already packing, and far more bad guys than good have won the room temperature challenge.

posted by Devils Advocate

Partially, but still full of shit. I have owned a Mini 14. It came with a factory 10 shot mag. 30 rounders are available. You might just read your own wiki page. The mini was 1st manufactured 9 years before the ranch variant came out. The AR and the mini are mechanically similar.They do have a "ranch" designation It is used by many SWAT teams before it was replace by the M4 and is still used by many prison facilities.

The Ruger Model 44, Remington , Ruger Model 99, etc. All semi-automatic hunting rifles that fit the same "difference" Cosmetically very different.  They all come with Tubular 4 shot internal storage. NO MAGAZINES NO COMPARISON.

 

 

Long winded answer to say "you are right with some caveats, but I will still say you are full of shit"

Holy shit, 3 other Broward cops got there and also didn’t go in. That sheriff needs fired now.

I was finally pushed to join the NRA. I'll be joining GOA and NAGR as well.

posted by queencitybuckeye

 

That the cop with a gun failed doesn't mean other people in the building shouldn't be armed, it means more should be. We need to stop the idea that we have no part to play in our own defense. We are the primary players in that.

I don't agree or disagree with this comment - I just want to point out that this is the same logical reasoning that the left uses when the government fails to prevent crime and that you routinely deride. 

Liberals - Government complaints to the FBI fail? The left says the answer is more government safeguards. 

Conservatives - Good Guys With Guns fail or fail to deter? We need more good guys with guns. 

The correct approach in a nation with 300 million guns is probably a little bit of both but that will never happen anytime soon because liberals and conservatives cannot debate firearm regulation reform in good faith. 

posted by justincredible

If the store owner is okay with it, so am I.

What is your stance on private businesses disallowing their employees from carrying or private individuals from carrying on their premises? Not trolling - just curious - as this seems to be a debate within libertarian/conservative politics these days e.g. NRA is for preventing businesses from denying concealed carry on basically natural rights grounds while Chamber of Commerce is against it on basically natural rights grounds

posted by gut

 

I'm just challenging the idea that arming teacher is going to be a significant deterrent.  The most effective thing that can be done is lock schools down and be vigilant about who you let in the building. 

Do we really want to trust these people with guns when they can't even monitor/control who has access to their campus?

 

I agree with this. Seems to be the easiest approach to preventing school shootings at least. Crazy that you even make this calculus but you're probably rather mass shooters go to other places than schools and the easiest way to encourage them to do so would be making it harder to get in the front door of buildings which, by and large and pretty much brick behemoths in any case.

How many private businesses require you to have a key card to get up and down an elevator, inside a door, etc. while people can walk in and out of my old high school like it's nothing...

If we arm teachers en masse - even if they are highly competent accidental gun deaths would soon surpass mass shooting deaths in schools just because of bad luck - if I were to guess. 

posted by BoatShoes

I don't agree or disagree with this comment - I just want to point out that this is the same logical reasoning that the left uses when the government fails to prevent crime and that you routinely deride. 

Liberals - Government complaints to the FBI fail? The left says the answer is more government safeguards. 

Conservatives - Good Guys With Guns fail or fail to deter? We need more good guys with guns. 

The correct approach in a nation with 300 million guns is probably a little bit of both but that will never happen anytime soon because liberals and conservatives cannot debate firearm regulation reform in good faith. 

 

There are simply too many guns out there to even pretend that part of the solution shouldn't be (or can't be) more security and yes, more good guys with guns. The idea that we can ban our way to safety is so absurd, it's not worthy of serious discussion.

posted by gut

 

I'm just challenging the idea that arming teacher is going to be a significant deterrent.  The most effective thing that can be done is lock schools down and be vigilant about who you let in the building. 

Do we really want to trust these people with guns when they can't even monitor/control who has access to their campus?

 

This is my opinion as well. New schools are being put up annually. Hopefully we're phasing out old buildings with little to no security for schools with locked perimeter doors (maybe even locked from the inside - they can be unlocked by faculty and automatically during fire drills, etc. -- just thinking out loud). and all visitors must be let in after proving they have good reason to be there. Students need to be more aware and report what seems odd. The agencies receiving the reports need to do their damn jobs and follow up. 

posted by BoatShoes

I don't agree or disagree with this comment - I just want to point out that this is the same logical reasoning that the left uses when the government fails to prevent crime and that you routinely deride. 

Liberals - Government complaints to the FBI fail? The left says the answer is more government safeguards. 

Conservatives - Good Guys With Guns fail or fail to deter? We need more good guys with guns. 

The correct approach in a nation with 300 million guns is probably a little bit of both but that will never happen anytime soon because liberals and conservatives cannot debate firearm regulation reform in good faith. 

 

The cop was not a good guy with a gun. He was coward who tried to hide it in a school the last couple years so he could get his pension. 

posted by BoatShoes

What is your stance on private businesses disallowing their employees from carrying or private individuals from carrying on their premises? Not trolling - just curious - as this seems to be a debate within libertarian/conservative politics these days e.g. NRA is for preventing businesses from denying concealed carry on basically natural rights grounds while Chamber of Commerce is against it on basically natural rights grounds

I believe in property rights. The owner is free to set the rules for their property regarding guns.

posted by BoatShoes

What is your stance on private businesses disallowing their employees from carrying or private individuals from carrying on their premises? 

For liability reasons, it's almost inconceivable to me that businesses don't ban guns, especially with client facing roles.

Someone asked about a convenience store.  I'd rather take other measures (and I've seen it done) than have my clerk in a gun confrontation - someone gets shot, justified or not, and my business is probably ruined.

posted by BoatShoes

Crazy that you even make this calculus but you're probably rather mass shooters go to other places than schools

I think children are targeted because it's an especially traumatic impact.  And the worst part is the media coverage - I think all these wackos crave the notoriety.  The name will always leak out, but I think the media can report the story without identifying the shooter.

But it's Vegas that should scare the living hell out of people.  How do you prevent that?  I can't imagine how many parade/sport/concert/etc. venues nationwide are overlooked by high rise hotels.

posted by superman

The cop was not a good guy with a gun. He was coward who tried to hide it in a school the last couple years so he could get his pension. 

I’m seeing a lot of people throwing the word coward around about this guy. 

1. Why don’t we wait and at least hear the cop’s side of the story before we convict him. 

2. Unless you have run towards a live shooter - or a similar life threatening danger, I believe you have no business calling someone a coward for not don’t the same. You can call him a guy in the wrong job certainly. None of us knows what we’d do in a situation like that until faced with it. 

3. A guy’s being called a coward by people that don’t know a thing about him. 

posted by gut

But it's Vegas that should scare the living hell out of people.  How do you prevent that?  I can't imagine how many parade/sport/concert/etc. venues nationwide are overlooked by high rise hotels.

Yeah, it’s damn near impossible to stop. That Vegas shooter was supposed to be in a room at the top of the Congress Hotel overlooking lollapalooza. Would have shot right down at me. I was at that stage Saturday night under the Congress. You can’t stop crazy. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I’m seeing a lot of people throwing the word coward around about this guy. 

1. Why don’t we wait and at least hear the cop’s side of the story before we convict him. 

2. Unless you have run towards a live shooter - or a similar life threatening danger, I believe you have no business calling someone a coward for not don’t the same. You can call him a guy in the wrong job certainly. None of us knows what we’d do in a situation like that until faced with it. 

3. A guy’s being called a coward by people that don’t know a thing about him. 

This guy is a coward for not helping CHILDREN getting slaughtered. Spare me the “you don’t know what you’d do in that situation” bullshit. I don’t care if there’s a 100% chance I’m dying, if children are inside a school trapped with a psychopath with a gun shooting them, I’m running in to try SOMETHING.