Progressives, part 3...

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

The difference today is the 24 hour news and commentary cycle.

The difference today is the blindly partisan nature of almost all media.  Forget cable news - the traditional media outlets are no longer objective, and really not even journalists anymore.

I think the public comments Trump made are impeachable (nevermind the long list of other comments and tweets that, taken together, probably amount to impeachable).  But it's disgusting to watch conservative outlets defend Trump, while the liberal outlets ignore/defend Biden.

Trump is exposing hypocrisy and corruption, alright.  Just probably not in the way he and his supporters expected.

posted by gut

The difference today is the blindly partisan nature of almost all media.  Forget cable news - the traditional media outlets are no longer objective, and really not even journalists anymore.

I think the public comments Trump made are impeachable (nevermind the long list of other comments and tweets that, taken together, probably amount to impeachable).  But it's disgusting to watch conservative outlets defend Trump, while the liberal outlets ignore/defend Biden.

Trump is exposing hypocrisy and corruption, alright.  Just probably not in the way he and his supporters expected.

I agree with your comments except that the media is partisan "today".  Throughout history, the media has always been partisan in some way.  The idea that once upon a time the news media was objective is a myth.  It's produced by people who are all opinionated.  The difference today is we have to hear about it 24/7.  Both sides complaining about the bias of the other.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I agree with your comments except that the media is partisan "today".  Throughout history, the media has always been partisan in some way.  The idea that once upon a time the news media was objective is a myth. 

I disagree.  Opinions used to be reserved for the Opinion/Editorial section.  Today, the news is opinion and the opinions are straight-up partisan propaganda.  "Just the facts" doesn't appear to exist in most reporters' purview.  Definitely not true 25 years ago.

And the actual quality/mastery of most Opinion has declined precipitously.  A good persuasion piece honestly addresses the best arguments on the other side.  You'll rarely see that today.  Most Opinion pieces today are built around strawmen and non-sequitors.  The NYT, at least its editorials, is practically a tabloid now.

posted by gut

The difference today is the blindly partisan nature of almost all media.  Forget cable news - the traditional media outlets are no longer objective, and really not even journalists anymore.

I think the public comments Trump made are impeachable (nevermind the long list of other comments and tweets that, taken together, probably amount to impeachable).  But it's disgusting to watch conservative outlets defend Trump, while the liberal outlets ignore/defend Biden.

Trump is exposing hypocrisy and corruption, alright.  Just probably not in the way he and his supporters expected.

I'd say part of that is because, with him, it's not that hypocrisy and corruption are a problem, it's that they are a problem when he's not the beneficiary of them. Hell, this morning, I saw a headline concerning Trump ripping on Fox News because they have a poll up saying that 51% support impeachment and removal, basically lamenting how, in the "old days", they were on his side. It's kind of a microcosm of the big issue of the time where the public, being generally stupid, would rather have news saying what they want to hear instead of what actually is factual. Kind of the QQ SYNDROME, where he'll blast the media for being deranged and biased constantly, then put up a link to a story/column on a conservatively-biased site and then, if anyone mocks the source, will deliver a bitchy "gotta attack the messenger if you don't like the message" post, conveniently ignoring how that's what he does constantly.

It's really a quicksand pit that I don't see any way out of, as people by nature seem to just want to hear whatever supports their bias and notions, regardless of how much factual merit it has. It's why the left harps on every single thing Trump does until it's far beyond losing all meaning and it's why the CCs and QQs of the world harp on the Clintons/Obamas/Bidens as if they believe that if they can claim criminal acts by them 1 billion times, something will actually stick.

Quid Pro Joe's campaign is deader than Corn Pop.  The latest is he's crying to NYT for writing an article about Hunter's pay-for-play profiteering.

Fits really well with the discussion on partisan media.  Only a Democrat could write the NYT and say "c'mon man, who's side are you on anyway?"

QO, not QQ

posted by gut

I disagree.  Opinions used to be reserved for the Opinion/Editorial section.  Today, the news is opinion and the opinions are straight-up partisan propaganda.  "Just the facts" doesn't appear to exist in most reporters' purview.  Definitely not true 25 years ago.

And the actual quality/mastery of most Opinion has declined precipitously.  A good persuasion piece honestly addresses the best arguments on the other side.  You'll rarely see that today.  Most Opinion pieces today are built around strawmen and non-sequitors.  The NYT, at least its editorials, is practically a tabloid now.

 

This isn't accurate.  Going back to founding days of the country, politics has always been part of what's reported.  During the 1700s nad 1800s, many major newspapers were more resembling of what we call tabloids.  Every city had multiple papers that reported from different political perspectives.  Usually the publisher's politics are what the paper pursued.  The idea that there was every this time of objective news journalism is just not so.  The difference today is that news media is so prevelant and unavoidable, so we all think about it a lot more.  

Lol CNN LBGT 18 other letter townhall tonight. With a 9 year old transgender asking a question. That’s def gonna win y’all the Midwest. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

This isn't accurate.  Going back to founding days of the country, politics has always been part of what's reported.  During the 1700s nad 1800s, many major newspapers were more resembling of what we call tabloids.  Every city had multiple papers that reported from different political perspectives.  Usually the publisher's politics are what the paper pursued.  The idea that there was every this time of objective news journalism is just not so.  The difference today is that news media is so prevelant and unavoidable, so we all think about it a lot more.  

Totally disagree with your point of view here.

My Father was a 50+ year newspaper reporter and editor who retired in 1977.  He worked for local newspapers as well as 'conglomerates' that owned several newspapers where his by-lines appeared in several cities.  He railed against what he called 'yellow journalism'...which is what is prevalent today.  His point of view, and those of the industry was that a newspaper was to report the news, while opinions were for the Op/Ed pages only.  IMO, newspapers are not nearly as bad as the television media where the political lean has gone to full tilt to one side or the other with absolutely no room to report what is not in keeping with the networks politics.  It doesn't matter if you are talking about CNN, Fox, PMSNBC or any of them....you get no factual and unbiased news reporting from any of them.

posted by iclfan2

Lol CNN LBGT 18 other letter townhall tonight. With a 9 year old transgender asking a question. That’s def gonna win y’all the Midwest. 

Yea I saw about 1 minute of the show.....unreal how cringy it was for those Dems to act like they actually believed the words that were coming out of their mouths

LOL, whisteblower wants to submit written answers in lieu of oral testimony in order to "protect their identity".  Is this person actually in danger, or is that being sensationalized to add gravity to the charges?  I don't doubt some idiots would harass this person if their identity was public, but I'm not seeing the issue testifying behind closed doors.

Doesn't sound suspicious at all.  I completely trust Adam Schiff to do the right thing.

posted by gut

LOL, whisteblower wants to submit written answers in lieu of oral testimony in order to "protect their identity".  Is this person actually in danger, or is that being sensationalized to add gravity to the charges?  I don't doubt some idiots would harass this person if their identity was public, but I'm not seeing the issue testifying behind closed doors.

Doesn't sound suspicious at all.  I completely trust Adam Schiff to do the right thing.

The transcript is already out, everything now is window dressing.  The whole thing is a weak ploy that will end in no impeachment, but you've already bought in. 

posted by iclfan2

The transcript is already out, everything now is window dressing.  The whole thing is a weak ploy that will end in no impeachment, but you've already bought in. 

I thought the whistleblower(s) had more than just the phone call?

Also, I made my mind up POTUS should be impeached when he went before the media and called on corrupt foreign powers to investigate individual US citizens.  By his own standards (and rhetoric), he should be in jail for saying that.

its also hard to compare news now to 50 years ago because news used to be 1 hour at noon and one hour at 5.  Now its 24 hours a day.  They dont have enough content so they just do mostly bs.  I never watch the news on tv.  I will read news from sites i follow on twitter or yahoo news or something similar on the cpu.  I also cant stand that every article now a days has to have a video.  I really just want to read it.  I get it that they make their money that way but its annoying.

posted by geeblock

its also hard to compare news now to 50 years ago because news used to be 1 hour at noon and one hour at 5.  Now its 24 hours a day.  They dont have enough content so they just do mostly bs.  I never watch the news on tv.  I will read news from sites i follow on twitter or yahoo news or something similar on the cpu.  I also cant stand that every article now a days has to have a video.  I really just want to read it.  I get it that they make their money that way but its annoying.

But I agree with Wkfan - even 25 years ago most mainstream media kept the news pretty separate from opinion.  There was supposed to be, and for the most part was, essentially a chinese wall between the news and the editorials.

That line has basically disappeared with the internet.  The "breaking news" aspect caused the established media to get much looser with fact checking and verification or they get left behind.  And then most people want their news cherry-picked and spun to their liking.  Still that is very, very different relative to some of the outright fake news and propaganda with respect to Trump.

If I were to pinpoint it, I'd say they finally threw in the "non-partisan towel" somewhere around 2005 and it's been a gradual but accelerating descent....to the point most "journalists" now clearly push a party agenda, and they no longer try to hide it much less apologize for it.

posted by gut

I thought the whistleblower(s) had more than just the phone call?

Also, I made my mind up POTUS should be impeached when he went before the media and called on corrupt foreign powers to investigate individual US citizens.  By his own standards (and rhetoric), he should be in jail for saying that.

LOL …you mean the vice-president of the United States who was selling his office for personal gain, and using my money to bribe foreign officials. Good God, get in the game.

Elizabeth Warren making up that she got fired for being pregnant is awesome. What a world we live in when these are the best candidates.

posted by iclfan2

Elizabeth Warren making up that she got fired for being pregnant is awesome. What a world we live in when these are the best candidates.

It's quite incredible.  Everything is so scripted and focused group that even genuine stories are probably embellished to the point of fabrication.

At least Trump is a bad liar!  With Biden and Warren you never know what to believe.

Speaking of the news media, Shepherd Smith with a shocking departure from Fox News today.

The actual news piece of Fox has been butting heads with the opinion idiots.  Shep was one of the few good ones that you could trust not to push an agenda or fake news.

posted by gut

Speaking of the news media, Shepherd Smith with a shocking departure from Fox News today.

The actual news piece of Fox has been butting heads with the opinion idiots.  Shep was one of the few good ones that you could trust not to push an agenda or fake news.

It's a win for blind partisanship over actual balance.