Disgusted with the Biden administration

Anyway, it seems like the plan will be to have surrogates stump for Biden trashing Trump on his many legal issues and his "participation in insurrection".

That would be a remarkable way to run a campaign, at least in a non-covid year.  But then it's also remarkable how Biden has gotten away with far fewer pressers, much shorter when he actually does them, and very limited campaigning.  He's not even doing the cupcake SB interview, for the second time, which to be fair only really became a thing with Obama (and Trump skipped one, as well).

posted by gut

The irony is all those people that held their nose and voted for Biden to block Trump, only to possibly have Trump get a 2nd term, anyway, AND 4 years of Biden.

That's a real shit-sandwich.  But, as they say, we get the politicians we deserve.

There's plenty of irony all the way around.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

There's plenty of irony all the way around.  

True.  And I'm not convinced Trump can actually win.  There's plenty of evidence some registered Republicans will not vote for him, and some would even switch to Biden.

And in swing states decided by less than 2% of the vote, you only need about 2.5% of your base to switch to Biden, or 5% to simply stay home or vote 3rd party.  So, right now, it looks like Trump has no path to victory.  HOWEVER, Biden also appears to be losing support among his base, so that could offset the "never-Trumpers".

In either case, Trump will likely hurt Repubs down ballot, so they probably lose the House.  The Senate numbers strongly favor Repubs, but Trump might make that another thin margin.

As long as we get divided govt, which does better by passing less harmful legislation, I'm good.

I completely understand why people would not vote for Trump.  But I do not understand, even slightly, how anyone can confidently vote for Biden.  I understand the, "I vote for Biden because I won't vote for Trump" logic, but why wouldn't you go 3rd party?  How can anyone conscientiously and confidently say that Biden and his administration are best for the country?

posted by gut

True.  And I'm not convinced Trump can actually win.  There's plenty of evidence some registered Republicans will not vote for him, and some would even switch to Biden.

And in swing states decided by less than 2% of the vote, you only need about 2.5% of your base to switch to Biden, or 5% to simply stay home or vote 3rd party.  So, right now, it looks like Trump has no path to victory.  HOWEVER, Biden also appears to be losing support among his base, so that could offset the "never-Trumpers".

In either case, Trump will likely hurt Repubs down ballot, so they probably lose the House.  The Senate numbers strongly favor Repubs, but Trump might make that another thin margin.

As long as we get divided govt, which does better by passing less harmful legislation, I'm good.

Impression I get is that the more moderate Rs aren't keen on Trump and/or MAGA-World over some combination of his corruption and that faction's general "It's all about me/my way or the highway" way of doing things that tends to turn things into a clown show (ie: the recent debacles as to who is the House Speaker). But at the same time, the uber-Progs aren't all that into Biden due to the whole "support Israel no matter what" thing where he might occasionally say something about how they might be going too far, but still stands in their corner.

One of those things where it'll be interesting to see if those eroding fanbases leads to some other candidate/party getting momentum or if it just leads to general apathy and an all-time low in voting. This is a really weird year where, outside of both candidates' (and/or their parties in general) true-blue fanbases, I just don't know that anyone really cares about either guy beyond simply casting a vote for their team. In 2016, you at least had the Trump wave and in 2020, you had the anti-Trump wave to generate legit buzz for one candidate or another, but this time...you have the loud, annoying-ass supporters of both guys and then a lot of silence and people holding their nose.

I think Gut's "divided gov't" point is accurate.  A divided executive/house/senate is a good way to prevent either of these two from doing much damage.  

posted by Heretic

One of those things where it'll be interesting to see if those eroding fanbases leads to some other candidate/party getting momentum or if it just leads to general apathy and an all-time low in voting.

I agree with all that, however many people will still turn out to vote viewing it as "their duty" and most of them don't even consider a 3rd party candidate, even if they are better aligned with their views.

The only 3rd party candidate in recent times to get any real traction was Ross Perot.  I think he got nearly 20% of the popular vote one year, but he accomplished that by buying prime time spots to speak directly to the voters.

The fact the Libertarian Party couldn't get ANY traction in 2016 or 2020 proves that party is going nowhere without a significant change in leadership and strategy.

Ditto for No Labels.  Although Manchin or Kennedy may do better than the Libertarians due to name recognition, but No Labels still isn't in the game having not picked a candidate.  And if Biden and Trump decide not to debate - which looks like a real possibility - that's even less opportunity for a 3rd party (which the DNC and RNC have colluded to keep 3rd parties off the stage, anyway).

The real problem might be the Dems and Repubs control basically all the major media, and I think that's been key to maintaining the 2-party status quo.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I think Gut's "divided gov't" point is accurate.  A divided executive/house/senate is a good way to prevent either of these two from doing much damage.  

The other problem is people keep voting for the shitty incumbents in the House and Senate despite horrendous approval ratings solely so "their team" can keep control.  

You refuse to vote for the other party then fine, but for goodness sakes vote in the primary and get rid of the deadbeats.  And in many districts it's not even competitive with the election effectively taking place in the primary.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I think Gut's "divided gov't" point is accurate.  A divided executive/house/senate is a good way to prevent either of these two from doing much damage.  

Gridlock is always the way to go. 

posted by like_that

Gridlock is always the way to go. 

I'm hoping for a restoration of the full SALT deductions, so I'm for about anything EXCEPT Republicans controlling all 3.

posted by like_that

Well, we need to wait for Ptown's take on this one.  For years he has told us that Biden's health is in perfect condition and it was a figment of our imagination that Biden's cognitive abilities were sinking exponentially.  

If he confirms that this is no longer the case with Biden's health, then we can start talking about a replacement. 

Adding this article for context on how quickly age no longer became a factor for presidential candidates (take note of the age of McCain at this time and Biden's age now): https://www.politico.com/story/2008/05/mccains-age-is-a-legitimate-issue-010529

Agreed. Ptown has called us names for years for saying he has dementia. We need to wait for his analysis.

posted by like_that

Gridlock is always the way to go. 

It helps, but most of the damage is coming from the administrative state and a massive immovable bureaucracy.  With an 'R' in the WH, it helps greatly in keeping agencies off the backs of the people and business.

posted by like_that

Gridlock is always the way to go. 

It's not ideal, but it's better than an elderly man with memory problems or a cult of personality narcissist making impactful choices.

Old does not equal dementia.

Good see this board are still experts in dementia and practicing doctors on the subject. 

One can say someone is too old to be President and not think they have dementia. 

I know that blows some people's mind on here. 

posted by like_that

Gridlock is always the way to go. 

Gridlock does nothing to solve the debt, immigration, defense budget, or any other issue you seem to care about. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Gridlock does nothing to solve the debt, immigration, defense budget, or any other issue you seem to care about. 

Doesn't solve those things, I agree.

But it also doesn't keep piling on more and more. Sometimes stasis has to be relied on.

You don't have to be a doctor to be well educated about medical problems. You don't have to be able to order CTs or MRIs or schedule appointments with other specialists from big university hospitals. 

But you CAN look at the images, have them explained to you, be told and shown the differences between plaques and tangles, poor over leading books on the subject, go to support groups with others that have to deal with the same thing, learn how to pick people up from the floor, witness the incremental decline and lapses of speech, the staring off, the slack jaw, the incontinence, changes in personality and how to prepare for sundowning, etc.  Right up to the point where somebody no longer knows who her daughter is. 

One doesn't need to be an artist to know art.

And it's interesting because we were all told that all we had to do was "just talk to them". Interesting that that was the antidote when it suited you, Ptown. But when it doesn't suit you, one has to be a doctor.

You're full of shit. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Gridlock does nothing to solve the debt, immigration, defense budget, or any other issue you seem to care about. 

I will take an up or down vote on any one of those issues in singularity.  Problem is other shit gets attached that is worse.  Then politicians run to the cameras and say you don't care about what you say you care about.  Until that changes as said gridlock is always the way to go.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

 

Old does not equal dementia.

Good see this board are still experts in dementia and practicing doctors on the subject. 

One can say someone is too old to be President and not think they have dementia. 

I know that blows some people's mind on here. 

Quite genius of Biden to play the demented old man to avoid cupability.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Gridlock does nothing to solve the debt, immigration, defense budget, or any other issue you seem to care about. 

The alternative hasn’t resolved any of that either.