2020 Presidential Election thread

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 38 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 12:46 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

You know, fuck it.

According to the OIG Report, the actual Crossfire Hurricane was opened up in July 2016 and it started from the conversation that a friendly government official, from Australia, heard Papadopoulos talking about some shady items. That prompted the FBI to formally open the investigation. Steele was a traditional handler of intel that the FBI used going back to 2010. A field office was handling some of his information, raw information that was unverified. In May 2016 that was forwarded to another field office in NY. However, the Crossfire Hurricane investigation did not get access or information from Steele until September 2016 and then it was only a piece of information as they knew it was not verified. 

Read the report for more information. Chapters 3 and 4 actually explain the timeline of the start of the investigations. 

Now, yes the report goes on to rightly criticize the FBI. However, the report clearly outlines that the Steele Dossier DID NOT lead to the start of the investigation of Crossfire Hurricane. 

https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf

I'll also add that the investigation into Manafort that led to his arrest had nothing to do with Steele as well.



From that far right wing USA Today...


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2019/12/09/horowitz-fisa-report-timeline-fbis-russia-probe-carter-page-surveillance/2623350001/


Specifically the October part...It specifically said they went to the FISA report based on the information from Steele to monitor Page. 


I mean come on ptown, the FISA court was given information straight from the Steele Dossier as their main reason for monitoring Page. Read the last paragraph a few times if you still don't want to believe in the facts.


They got the information on Page directly from the Steele Dossier, which was hired/paid for by Fusion GPS, who received the funding from the Clinton and DNC law firm. 


I will say it again for those in the back of the room. It's right there in black and white. What was taken to the FISA court as the main reason for investigation/monitoring/spying was the Steele Dossier funded by the DNC, which has since been proven to be fake/false. 


October 2016

The FBI asks the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for a warrant to eavesdrop on Page. In its application, the FBI says it believes Page "has been collaborating and conspiring" with the Russian government to influence the outcome of the election.

The FBI's application says Page also met with two allies of Russian President Vladimir Putin on his July 2016 trip to Moscow. He spoke with Igor Sechin, president of a Russian energy company, about lifting sanctions against Russia. Igor Nikolayevich Divyekin, a high-ranking Kremlin official, talked to Page about giving the Trump campaign damaging information about Clinton.

Page, in media interviews, had denied meeting with Sechin and Divyekin.

The FBI learned of these meetings from former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, author of the infamous "dossier" alleging ties between Trump and Russia. Steele had been hired by the research firm Fusion GPS, which received funding from a law firm representing Clinton and the Democratic National Committee, to dig up information about Trump's ties to Russia.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 8 reps Joined Jul 2013
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 12:53 PM

LOL bringing up Manafort as some sort of justification for spying..he was arrested on a process crime.  Same thing Comey, brennen, Clinton, Strok, Page, Weisman all did but they dont eat their own in DC so nothing happened

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 12:56 PM
posted by jmog

From that far right wing USA Today...


https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2019/12/09/horowitz-fisa-report-timeline-fbis-russia-probe-carter-page-surveillance/2623350001/


Specifically the October part...It specifically said they went to the FISA report based on the information from Steele to monitor Page. 


I mean come on ptown, the FISA court was given information straight from the Steele Dossier as their main reason for monitoring Page. Read the last paragraph a few times if you still don't want to believe in the facts.


They got the information on Page directly from the Steele Dossier, which was hired/paid for by Fusion GPS, who received the funding from the Clinton and DNC law firm. 


I will say it again for those in the back of the room. It's right there in black and white. What was taken to the FISA court as the main reason for investigation/monitoring/spying was the Steele Dossier funded by the DNC, which has since been proven to be fake/false. 


October 2016

The FBI asks the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court for a warrant to eavesdrop on Page. In its application, the FBI says it believes Page "has been collaborating and conspiring" with the Russian government to influence the outcome of the election.

The FBI's application says Page also met with two allies of Russian President Vladimir Putin on his July 2016 trip to Moscow. He spoke with Igor Sechin, president of a Russian energy company, about lifting sanctions against Russia. Igor Nikolayevich Divyekin, a high-ranking Kremlin official, talked to Page about giving the Trump campaign damaging information about Clinton.

Page, in media interviews, had denied meeting with Sechin and Divyekin.

The FBI learned of these meetings from former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, author of the infamous "dossier" alleging ties between Trump and Russia. Steele had been hired by the research firm Fusion GPS, which received funding from a law firm representing Clinton and the Democratic National Committee, to dig up information about Trump's ties to Russia.


I cited the actual report and you cite the media. 

Are you serious? 

The actual report goes into the process of the FISA court in later chapters. I would refer you to those which is an actual source, and not the media. There in the chapters it actually outlines how the intelligence was used. There, you can get a fuller picture instead of relying on secondary sources. 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 92 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 2:06 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

I'll also add that the investigation into Manafort that led to his arrest had nothing to do with Steele as well.

The entire investigation is dead in the water without the Dossier.  Comey testified, to Congress, that they would not have pursued the FISA warrants without it (which is something entirely different from the media spin that the warrant didn't hinge on it, which of course it didn't because FISA court is basically a rubber stamp).  But what Comey was subtly saying was without the Dossier, the DOJ would not have continued to pursue wire taps on Carter Page.

Manafort and Gates investigations were open - and shelved/buried - well before.  They were dirty as hell.  Of course, they were far from the only people doing such work.  And a BUNCH of swamp rats in DC were tied-up with Ukraine, including a few Obama officials and, as we all know, Hunter Biden.  So nothing happens to Manafor and Gates for this without the Russia hoax, and they were ultimately busted to try to leverage them against Trump.  Again, not saying they weren't dirty as hell, but it seems pretty clear the DOJ would have continued looking the other way....

They used a bunch of "trivial", and probably not uncommon, BS to justify the investigation.  Technically and letter of the law it was justified, but practically speaking it WAS a witch hunt.  Again, Manafort and Gates belong in jail, but you should ask yourself why the investigation had basically been dropped until the Drumpfster came along.

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil
7,259 posts 46 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 2:24 PM

At the end of the day everybody can bicker and pull the semantics game till their hearts are full, but it isn't going to matter because justice didn't prevail for those who want it to. Those who wanted something/anything to go after Trump they got what they wanted it twisted it pretty well. But they didn't get everything they wanted either, did they? He was still president, he still called the media out, he still caught the dems out and their kangaroo court impeached him but the senate rejected it.

It's a draw. That's probably the biggest thing Trump did - he left both sides unsatisfied.

Now, after all this time, can we let this go? 

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil
7,259 posts 46 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 4:33 PM

I wasn't sure where to drop this link, but since it's an election thread, I'll branch off and input an intra-presidential post.


jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 38 reps Joined Nov 2009
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 9:01 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1


I cited the actual report and you cite the media. 

Are you serious? 

The actual report goes into the process of the FISA court in later chapters. I would refer you to those which is an actual source, and not the media. There in the chapters it actually outlines how the intelligence was used. There, you can get a fuller picture instead of relying on secondary sources. 

Are you serious? As said above Comey testified to Congress that they don’t even try the FISA court if not for the Steele Dossier.


That alone means it was the largest reason for the investigation even if there were other reasons as well.


It’s ok to admit when you are wrong ptown.


Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 24 reps Joined Oct 2010
Fri, Feb 19, 2021 10:01 PM

PTown and Jmog have either of you ever changed you view based upon a post from the other?  

Heretic Son of the Sun
20,517 posts 189 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sat, Feb 20, 2021 11:32 AM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

PTown and Jmog have either of you ever changed you view based upon a post from the other?  

I'm just looking forward to the next 500 posts of this circular argument concerning the finer points of "who/what is REALLY most responsible-ist" about whatever, while neither shows any interest in remotely conceding any ground. It's kind of like Bird vs. Magic...if the NBA was so small-time that Bird and Magic were literally the only people who cared about their rivalry.

Now, I'll back off and let the pros go back to their arguing with the hopes it's good enough that I can get a good laugh during my lunch break Monday!

geeblock Member
1,123 posts 0 reps Joined May 2018
Sat, Feb 20, 2021 3:41 PM

Let’s talk about Benghazi some more while we’re at it lol 

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sat, Feb 20, 2021 5:31 PM
posted by jmog

Are you serious? As said above Comey testified to Congress that they don’t even try the FISA court if not for the Steele Dossier.


That alone means it was the largest reason for the investigation even if there were other reasons as well.


It’s ok to admit when you are wrong ptown.


I'll let the report speak for itself. As I said from the start, we won't see eye to eye. 

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sat, Feb 20, 2021 5:32 PM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

PTown and Jmog have either of you ever changed you view based upon a post from the other?  

My bad on bringing it up again. It is like we are living in a different world and cannot agree on basic facts. 

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sat, Feb 20, 2021 5:32 PM
posted by CenterBHSFan

I wasn't sure where to drop this link, but since it's an election thread, I'll branch off and input an intra-presidential post.


I think that is from an upcoming article by Neocon Robert Kagan. Not a surprise from him. 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 92 reps Joined Nov 2009
Sat, Feb 20, 2021 5:51 PM
posted by ptown_trojans_1

It is like we are living in a different world and cannot agree on basic facts. 

LOL.  What a smug way of saying "I'm right nanananana boo-boo".

You never cease to make me chuckle with this "I'm a moderate" shtick.

CenterBHSFan 333 - I'm only half evil
7,259 posts 46 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Feb 23, 2021 12:52 PM

Hey legal eagles, perhaps you have some idea if this is legal:

https://www.trumpvoterlist.org/

Perhaps 4chan at it again?

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 196 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Feb 23, 2021 1:07 PM
posted by CenterBHSFan

Hey legal eagles, perhaps you have some idea if this is legal:

https://www.trumpvoterlist.org/

Perhaps 4chan at it again?

lol, wtf do they think they will accomplish with this?

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 196 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Feb 23, 2021 1:09 PM

To be fair, a sitting congress person wants to create a database of all gun owners and what guns they own and make it accessible to the general public. Because we live in a clown world.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 54 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Feb 23, 2021 4:03 PM
posted by justincredible

To be fair, a sitting congress person wants to create a database of all gun owners and what guns they own and make it accessible to the general public. Because we live in a clown world.

They're just getting started ..................buckle up.

8,788 posts 21 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Feb 23, 2021 6:42 PM
posted by CenterBHSFan

Hey legal eagles, perhaps you have some idea if this is legal:

https://www.trumpvoterlist.org/

Perhaps 4chan at it again?

Holy shit. That is insane. I'm also curious of the legal aspects of this. 

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 196 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Feb 23, 2021 6:55 PM

Seriously, imagine submitting a friend or family member's info to that website?

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