The Last Dance

Just finished episodes 3 and 4. This series is absolutely fantastic. 

His comments on Rodman were awesome. “If he goes to Vegas, we definitely ain’t seeing him again.” 

Of course Phil Jackson coached in Puerto Rico.

I can't stand basketball, but was a Cavs fan back in that time (Price, Ehlo, Hotrod, etc). So I decided to watch this.

It is VERY well done.

posted by jmog

I can't stand basketball, but was a Cavs fan back in that time (Price, Ehlo, Hotrod, etc). So I decided to watch this.

 

It is VERY well done.

I liked the comments from MJ about how Ehlo was guarding him on that last shot..........

Can you imagine if this whole scenario of that last season was happening today?  Would almost been like Kraft coming out a few years ago stating it would be Belichekcs last year, no matter what, knowing it would mean TB12 is gone as well

posted by friendfromlowry

His comments on Rodman were awesome. “If he goes to Vegas, we definitely ain’t seeing him again.” 

Phil Jackson, to his credit, knew how to handle Rodman.  It was very telling that MJ said about Rodman: "When he was there, he was ALWAYS on point". (meaning he could be counted on to give 100%; and "He was one of the smartest players I ever played with.".  The latter is high praise considering who Jordan played with.  Last night's episodes made me remember that for all his qualities, no one hustled more on the court than Rodman fighting for those rebounds.  

Rodman is one of the smartest players to ever suit up, so no surprise he was the smartest teammate MJ had.

Also incredible that team featured maybe the 2 best on ball defenders in 50+ years. And the 3rd best defender on the team was a 9-time First Team All-Defense and 1-time DPOY. Just incredible.

Anyone else think Carmen Electra still has it at 48 years old?

posted by like_that

Anyone else think Carmen Electra still has it at 48 years old?

Hell yes!

posted by like_that

Anyone else think Carmen Electra still has it at 48 years old?

Yep.

I loved the stuff about the Pistons and Horace Grant calling them bitches. You can still hear after nearly 30 years the hate is still there. 

The stuff about the creation of the triangle offense and Jordan giving up on taking more shots was great too. 

Those 2 episodes really highlighted how tough it was for the Bulls to keep it together.  Players today...no way they handle going through all that for that many years.

These guys played over a decade together...today, guys stay for a few years then bolt.

And for all the BS about how Jordan won all that stuff with great players around him...please.  Look at his big men....Bill Cartright, Luke Longley....Bill Wennington?

Oh...they havent got to the Knicks yet!!!!!!

posted by Spock

Those 2 episodes really highlighted how tough it was for the Bulls to keep it together.  Players today...no way they handle going through all that for that many years.

 

These guys played over a decade together...today, guys stay for a few years then bolt.

And for all the BS about how Jordan won all that stuff with great players around him...please.  Look at his big men....Bill Cartright, Luke Longley....Bill Wennington?

The big men weren't really needed in the triangle at the time. It was more about movement and spacing. Jordan did have probably the greatest number 2 of all time with him, Pippen, and then a legit 3 in Horace Grant and then Rodman. Jordan also had a combination of Paxton, BJ Armstrong and then Steve Kerr, Ron Harper, and Toni Kukoc as role players. The team was stacked for sure.

Really no other team in the league could top their top 3. the 93 Suns and 98 Jazz came maybe the closest. Maybe the 98 Pacers too. 

posted by Spock

Oh...they havent got to the Knicks yet!!!!!!

I have a feeling episodes 5 and 6 are going to get into the fun stuff about the 93 finals, Jordan retiring, coming back, and the second run at the title including those great Knicks series. 
 

Saw the sneak peak and looks like some fireworks with Horace Grant and Jordan, in that Grant leaked info to a book/article?

Could get reaaal good!

posted by thavoice

Saw the sneak peak and looks like some fireworks with Horace Grant and Jordan, in that Grant leaked info to a book/article?

Could get reaaal good!

Oh that could be. I know when Grant left for the Magic after the 94 season, his relationship with the rest of the Bulls went south. I thought it was more he left them for more money and Shaq/ Penny. Those Magic-Bulls games were fun.  

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Oh that could be. I know when Grant left for the Magic after the 94 season, his relationship with the rest of the Bulls went south. I thought it was more he left them for more money and Shaq/ Penny. Those Magic-Bulls games were fun.  

I caught like the last 45 seconds of the clip. Jordan said Horace gave details, and HOrace vehemently denied it.  Also could have been how they cut the promo though.    Talked of how Horace was a bit jealous he didnt get more attention..

posted by Spock

Those 2 episodes really highlighted how tough it was for the Bulls to keep it together.  Players today...no way they handle going through all that for that many years.

These guys played over a decade together...today, guys stay for a few years then bolt.

And for all the BS about how Jordan won all that stuff with great players around him...please.  Look at his big men....Bill Cartright, Luke Longley....Bill Wennington?

If the Bulls played in today’s media climate, they crumble way sooner.

And they didn’t play together for 10 years. Scottie and Jordan did (with Jordan leaving for 1.5).That’s it.

As for the big men, sure they sucked. Counterpoint, Michael never beat a good C in the finals (and not many in playoffs in general). 22 year old Vlade, Duckworth, Mark West, Brickowski/Johnson, Ostertag x2, Keefe? I mean, not exactly murderers row of centers. 

In Jordan’s timeframe, there were only a handful of great C. Olajuwon (never played), Shaq (1-1), Ewing (like 4-0 or something) and Mourning (I think 1-0). Pacers had Rik Smits ffs. Laimbeer kicked his ass 3/4 years. It wasn’t like he had to go against athletic bigs able to switch, or rim protectors or anything every round. It was like once in 4 rounds, every other year.

posted by Laley23

If the Bulls played in today’s media climate, they crumble way sooner.

And they didn’t play together for 10 years. Scottie and Jordan did (with Jordan leaving for 1.5).That’s it.

As for the big men, sure they sucked. Counterpoint, Michael never beat a good C in the finals (and not many in playoffs in general). 22 year old Vlade, Duckworth, Mark West, Brickowski/Johnson, Ostertag x2, Keefe? I mean, not exactly murderers row of centers. 

In Jordan’s timeframe, there were only a handful of great C. Olajuwon (never played), Shaq (1-1), Ewing (like 4-0 or something) and Mourning (I think 1-0). Pacers had Rik Smits ffs. Laimbeer kicked his ass 3/4 years. It wasn’t like he had to go against athletic bigs able to switch, or rim protectors or anything every round. It was like once in 4 rounds, every other year.

I'd agree with that somewhat. The Magic beating the Jordan Bulls in 1995 when he came back is a good example of the Bulls not being able to stop a big man like Shaq. Now, the next year, they swept them in the ECS. But, yeah, Jordan never had to face Hakeem or David Robinson in the finals. 

The teams that gave the Bulls the most trouble had size, like the Jazz in 97-98 and the Pacers. The Pacers not only had Smitts, but the Davis brothers. 

My take for a long time has been if the Bulls would have faced the Rockets of 1994 and 1995, the Rockets would have won one of those series. I don't think they would have been able to stop Hakeem as well as Clyde Drexler and the size of the Rockets. That 1994 title team for Houston has Hakeem, Clyde, Robert Horry, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith and Sam Cassel. They would have been toe to toe with the Bulls in any combination of the 3 peat era. 

posted by Laley23

If the Bulls played in today’s media climate, they crumble way sooner.

And they didn’t play together for 10 years. Scottie and Jordan did (with Jordan leaving for 1.5).That’s it.

As for the big men, sure they sucked. Counterpoint, Michael never beat a good C in the finals (and not many in playoffs in general). 22 year old Vlade, Duckworth, Mark West, Brickowski/Johnson, Ostertag x2, Keefe? I mean, not exactly murderers row of centers. 

In Jordan’s timeframe, there were only a handful of great C. Olajuwon (never played), Shaq (1-1), Ewing (like 4-0 or something) and Mourning (I think 1-0). Pacers had Rik Smits ffs. Laimbeer kicked his ass 3/4 years. It wasn’t like he had to go against athletic bigs able to switch, or rim protectors or anything every round. It was like once in 4 rounds, every other year.

Speaking of big men, i thought it was classic when they spoke to a few Centers after he was drafted they stated how you "cannot win in the NBA without a dominant big man, he will not succeed because he is not a big man, etc etc etc"

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I'd agree with that somewhat. The Magic beating the Jordan Bulls in 1994 when he came back is a good example of the Bulls not being able to stop a big man like Shaq. Now, the next year, they swept them in the ECS. But, yeah, Jordan never had to face Hakeem or David Robinson in the finals. 

My take for a long time has been if the Bulls would have faced the Rockets of 1994 and1995, the Rockets would have won one of those series. I don't think they would have been able to stop Hakeem as well as Clyde Drexler and the size of the Rockets. That 1994 title team for Houston has Hakeem, Clyde, Robert Horry, Otis Thorpe, Kenny Smith and Sam Cassel. They would have been toe to toe with the Bulls in any combination of the 3 peat era. 

 

Who has beaten a team for the title with great centers? The position itself fell by the wayside from 1990 on....other than mostly what you mentioned