Trump. The convicted felon

posted by geeblock

but I don’t think it’s in question even by his own words that it was illegally paid for. I’ll yield my time 

Again, try to keep up.  It's absolutely a question - Trump said he paid a legal bill.  That is an indisputable fact, and I'm 100% certain that paying a legal bill is not a crime.

Where the crime comes in, without even getting into the novel way the DA linked the charges, errr a misdemeanor with an implied, nebulous non-charge, the "crime" is that he had knowledge and intent to commit fraud.  The ONLY evidence for that was the word of multi-convicted perjurer Michael Cohen.  No corroborating witnesses to that, and one person (perhaps equally un-credible) refuting it.  For any non-uber partisan person, that's a slam-dunk for reasonable doubt.

For something as trivial as this, if you're following the advice of counsel you're likely not going to be charged, much less convicted for the incompetence/fraud committed by your counsel.  But because Michael Cohen said Trump told him to do it...

And since you're so completely convinced Trump committed a crime, I'd just point out the FEC - the one that fined, but declined to charge, Hillary and the DNC for basically the exact same thing - voted NOT to charge or fine Trump.

Let that sink in for a minute - the expert regulatory body charged with oversight passed on even fining Trump for this "crime".  Yet somehow a state prosecutor revived an expired statute to charge Trump for that federal crime.  You can't find a much clearer example of "tell me who and I'll find the crime" (that's a reference to Stalinist USSR, in case you're unfamiliar).

posted by QuakerOats

And there was no cover up in accounting at all.  Any payments to Cohen were coded the exact same way as all other payments to attorneys and law firms for the past 30 years, per the testimony of the controller and the bookkeeper, and 1099's were issued.  You have a perfectly legal NDA, and properly recorded payments related thereto.  Bizarro world how the charges could even be manufactured.  Of course, you had Biden's #3 man at the Department of Justice leave DoJ, go to Bragg's office, and magically the charges were concocted and it was off to the races with a perfectly compliant judge and a jury of his non-peers.  The choreography has been spot on. 

It could also be said that is is possible with all his money he should have got better lawyers? 

posted by gut

Again, try to keep up.  It's absolutely a question - Trump said he paid a legal bill.  That is an indisputable fact, and I'm 100% certain that paying a legal bill is not a crime.

Where the crime comes in, without even getting into the novel way the DA linked the charges, errr a misdemeanor with an implied, nebulous non-charge, the "crime" is that he had knowledge and intent to commit fraud.  The ONLY evidence for that was the word of multi-convicted perjurer Michael Cohen.  No corroborating witnesses to that, and one person (perhaps equally un-credible) refuting it.  For any non-uber partisan person, that's a slam-dunk for reasonable doubt.

For something as trivial as this, if you're following the advice of counsel you're likely not going to be charged, much less convicted for the incompetence/fraud committed by your counsel.  But because Michael Cohen said Trump told him to do it...

And since you're so completely convinced Trump committed a crime, I'd just point out the FEC - the one that fined, but declined to charge, Hillary and the DNC for basically the exact same thing - voted NOT to charge or fine Trump.

Let that sink in for a minute - the expert regulatory body charged with oversight passed on even fining Trump for this "crime".  Yet somehow a state prosecutor revived an expired statute to charge Trump for that federal crime.  You can't find a much clearer example of "tell me who and I'll find the crime" (that's a reference to Stalinist USSR, in case you're unfamiliar 

posted by Heretic

Maybe to a degree? When Trump is out of the game (ie: deceased, since that dude's never shutting up about stuff while alive), I can see the MAGA movement collapsing due to how its main followers like MTG might have his abrasive combativeness, but are very lacking in charisma and I tend to get the idea that every little bit of respect/status they have among their fellow officeholders is due to Trump's presence. When daddy's still around, can't be ignoring his most faithful acolytes!..

Well, it's probably instructive to remember the Tea Party movement was eventually hijacked and co-opted by the religious right, which I guess then ultimately morphed into the MAGA movement.  So can't say I'm excited for what comes next.

And something similar may be happening on the left, with Bernie's Democrat Socialist movement ultimately giving way to some combination of Woke, DEI, BLM, Climate Change and anti-Israel.

Otherwise I agree that safe districts create a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

I'll just end by pointing out many of Trump's policies are actually straight out of Slick Willy's platform.  It's not out of the realm of possibility if Hillary wasn't there in 2016 he runs as a Democrat, and where would that leave us today?  But, consider the Dossier started out as Republican oppo research, so that whole thing still happens.  Covid still happens.

posted by geeblock
Yea you leave a lot out here.. but I really don’t care that much to argue. 

Probably best, because you pretty clearly have only a very surfacory-level understanding of the case, probably from a Mother Jones article or something of the sort.

posted by geeblock

It could also be said that is is possible with all his money he should have got better lawyers? 

By all accounts, he had very good lawyers for this case.  But a partisan and complicit judge let a prosecutor abuse the law to lead the jury pied-piper style to a conviction.

They turned a bookkeeping error into election fraud.  Full stop.  That's not hyperbole.

posted by gut

Probably best, because you pretty clearly have only a very surfacory-level understanding of the case, probably from a Mother Jones article or something of the sort.

Sounds like he should have hired you lol 

posted by gut

Probably best, because you pretty clearly have only a very surfacory-level understanding of the case, probably from a Mother Jones article or something of the sort.

My bad I read up on it it was just a bookkeeping error 

Gee block is being way more reasonable than Boogie. Who would have thunk. Boogie went strait libtard. It was a jury of his peers!

posted by iclfan2

Gee block is being way more reasonable than Boogie. Who would have thunk. Boogie went strait libtard. It was a jury of his peers!

You got it.

I don’t have much of an opinion about this trial.  Trump says it’s “rigged” which seems to be echoing around this place.  According to him, the 2020 election was “rigged”, the January 6th investigation was “rigged”, the current unemployment numbers are “rigged”, the press about his dealings with Putin was “rigged”, etc.  

Ive  been listening to a podcast about Robert Hanssen, the notorious FBI mole in the 80s and 90s.  The incompetence in catching him was quite vast.  It was a reminder that the more entities and people involved with trying to solve a complex problem, the more fucked up it gets and the more its secrets are revealed.  

My point is a grand conspiracy against Trump would less chance of success due to it being exponentially more complex.  The “it’s all rigged” is a simple way to look at things, but you may have to consider that Trump is a bad guy and has put himself into this position.

In your binary world, that makes me a libtard.  Although I think Biden is not a good alternative, I realize you need to see things as either/or.  That’s fine.

posted by gut

It's all about re-election and control.  Until voters start holding them accountable, nothing will change.

Still pretty amazing how we've gotten to the point where it's now almost all about investigating the other party, blaming the other party for all the problems, and "saving Democracy" while actually damaging it....and doing less and less real work.

Saw some of this morning's hearings on Fauci, and it was all the usual suspects with their typical nauseating partisan grandstanding.  Fauci is likely a sociopath with a god complex, but I do think he did everything with people's safety at heart to the best of his ability.  I think he made some horrible decisions and covered up some of that, but I don't think there was any ill intent.  This hearing was a giant waste of time, but then what else do any of them do?

If ever there was a year for 3rd parties....but I'll be shocked if they get 15%, combined.

Well, both of our 3rd parties are being led by whackos right now. Who is the figurehead for the green party? Look who the LP picked lol

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

You got it.

I don’t have much of an opinion about this trial.  Trump says it’s “rigged” which seems to be echoing around this place.  According to him, the 2020 election was “rigged”, the January 6th investigation was “rigged”, the current unemployment numbers are “rigged”, the press about his dealings with Putin was “rigged”, etc.  

Ive  been listening to a podcast about Robert Hanssen, the notorious FBI mole in the 80s and 90s.  The incompetence in catching him was quite vast.  It was a reminder that the more entities and people involved with trying to solve a complex problem, the more fucked up it gets and the more its secrets are revealed.  

My point is a grand conspiracy against Trump would less chance of success due to it being exponentially more complex.  The “it’s all rigged” is a simple way to look at things, but you may have to consider that Trump is a bad guy and has put himself into this position.

In your binary world, that makes me a libtard.  Although I think Biden is not a good alternative, I realize you need to see things as either/or.  That’s fine.

Hands down this is your worst post. Ever.

You're straight trolling and I appreciate it haha

posted by CenterBHSFan

It is my hope that that day will begin after the next four years. As in, immediately. Hopefully politicians will be sick of this shit, along with all of their constituents.

we've turned our government into a reality show. in my little state with 7 total representatives in washington, we have a former MMA fighter who challenges people to arm wrestling matches on the congressional floor, a youth minister, and a guy who hasn't voted in the state since he won his congressional seat in 2002. None of our reps are some of the more "nutty" reps, like our 7 are pretty benign compared to  Gaetz, MTG, Boebert, AOC, etc.

I agree Gaetz is a clown, but right now he's carving up AG Garland.

I disagreed with McConnell refusing to confirm Garland, but wow did we dodge a bullet there.

posted by gut

I agree Gaetz is a clown, but right now he's carving up AG Garland.

I disagreed with McConnell refusing to confirm Garland, but wow did we dodge a bullet there.

i argue you created garland by not giving him the confirmation. but yeah he wouldn't be in line with roberts or gorsuch.

posted by gut

I agree Gaetz is a clown, but right now he's carving up AG Garland.

I disagreed with McConnell refusing to confirm Garland, but wow did we dodge a bullet there.

Why would you have disagreed with that? And yea he’s a progressive clown. 

posted by geeblock

It could also be said that is is possible with all his money he should have got better lawyers? 

It didn't matter, with this judge, this venue, and these jurors it was going to be guilty.  They made sure of it, and in quick order. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

You got it.

I don’t have much of an opinion about this trial.  Trump says it’s “rigged” which seems to be echoing around this place.  According to him, the 2020 election was “rigged”, the January 6th investigation was “rigged”, the current unemployment numbers are “rigged”, the press about his dealings with Putin was “rigged”, etc.  

Ive  been listening to a podcast about Robert Hanssen, the notorious FBI mole in the 80s and 90s.  The incompetence in catching him was quite vast.  It was a reminder that the more entities and people involved with trying to solve a complex problem, the more fucked up it gets and the more its secrets are revealed.  

My point is a grand conspiracy against Trump would less chance of success due to it being exponentially more complex.  The “it’s all rigged” is a simple way to look at things, but you may have to consider that Trump is a bad guy and has put himself into this position.

In your binary world, that makes me a libtard.  Although I think Biden is not a good alternative, I realize you need to see things as either/or.  That’s fine.

Speaking of J6, try this one on for size:

https://www.creators.com/press/brent-bozell-son-jan-6

posted by CenterBHSFan

Hands down this is your worst post. Ever.

You're straight trolling and I appreciate it haha

Okay

posted by geeblock

It could also be said that is is possible with all his money he should have got better lawyers? 

Kind of tough to get legit great lawyers wanting to rep you when your style is to personally grandstand at every possible opportunity instead of just letting them do their job. That in itself does a good job of winnowing the herd down to "cool with being part of a sideshow".

Although to be fair, at least the Blanche guy he had here was miles beyond the Alina Habba/Lin Wood/Rudy G class of buffoon he'd been previously working with.