Covid-19 discussion, continued...

posted by like_that

Just brainstorming here, but wouldn't it be smart for some of these airlines to get in on this action and help distribute the vaccines around the world? 

Probably not because commercial planes aren't going to be anywhere near as efficient as cargo planes (assuming you can ship these vaccines on dry ice, otherwise it's a different ball game entirely).

But you're probably right, with all the other online ordering, that there's a bottleneck here with the existing cargo supply chain.

I would guess they are planning to use those giant military cargo planes.  It has to be challenging to load-up a transatlantic flight storing this stuff at 80 below 0.

posted by justincredible

Yeah, I'm hoping to negotiate this into permanent WFH status so we can move somewhere else.

I'm going this route most likely.

Our secondary NYC office (which I've only been to once) is closing this week. So as of now, I don't have any reason to be in NYC work-wise. They are saying a spring office could happen, but who knows. 

I just had my review, mentioned I'd potentially be moving. My boss (who just moved to Nashville) said "wellllll we really want you to be in a city where we have an office." I countered with, "I interact with you the most, yet you live in Nashville." She backpedaled and said when/if the time comes for you to relocate, it shouldn't be a problem. 

So yeah, I'm most likely bouncing. My lease is up June 1. Not a chance in hell I'm resigning another lease unless there is significant change regarding COVID (which I doubt). 

6500 new cases in Ohio today. 

DeWine is addressing the state at 5:30 tomorrow. Is daddy going to ground us again?

One of the market talking heads just said airline travel is already coming back on news of the vaccine.  I was like "wuht????"

So people who weren't booking travel because of the virus....are suddenly booking travel months before they have any hope of actually getting the vaccine?!?

posted by justincredible

DeWine is addressing the state at 5:30 tomorrow. Is daddy going to ground us again?

posted by friendfromlowry
I’d be really, really unhappy if he did that when the majority of cases are people/families getting together in private and from nursing homes. 

Indeed  

posted by friendfromlowry

... and from nursing homes. 

How is that allowed to happen after all this time?

posted by gut

How is that allowed to happen after all this time?

Because nursing homes suck. 

posted by friendfromlowry
I’d be really, really unhappy if he did that when the majority of cases are people/families getting together in private and from nursing homes. 

Is this still the case? With case numbers and positivity rate going up I can’t imagine this is still the case right? 

Honest question here...

I am speaking for Ohio in general and the places I have traveled for work the last few months. 

People, in general, are wearing masks properly and staying 6 ft apart...in general. I see nearly all people in public while I am out, at least where I have traveled for work and the Akron area.  

If masks and distancing are widely accepted and practiced, and cases are still going up...

Is it time we just protect the vulnerable and let everyone else live their lives to let herd immunity take hold? 

It’s obvious everything we are doing is not stopping the spread anyway. The countries who did near nothing, the countries that did heavy handed lock downs, and those in between like the USA all are relatively similar numbers per million population when corrected for population density.

So why not just live life and be smart about it. Nothing seems to stop it from spreading. 

posted by jmog

So why not just live life and be smart about it. Nothing seems to stop it from spreading. 

I'm not sure people are as compliant in public as you think, necessarily.  But I think the real culprit is private gatherings and people aren't following the guidelines.  So maybe the better question is either you go REAL heavy-handed and stop with half-ass measures, or you open everything up because, like you're saying, people aren't having it.

I'd argue we've seen in pro sports, and even college, that distancing and masks DO work.  Very few cases in the NFL despite all the players with families and kids.  And with the exception of TEN, there has been virtually 0 spread even among teammates (and pretty much 0 from games).  Same goes, mostly, for college...until the players get complacent and go to parties or wherever and bring it in from outside the facility.

Our hospitals are really starting to stretch and we haven't nearly hit peak flu season yet.  So I'm not sure, but your point is well taken that it's very destructive and wasteful to shut down bars and restaurants if people are just doing the same thing in private parties.

Just giving my personal experience watching people over the last few months in Ohio and other states I have traveled to (IN, PA, MI, VA, MA, ME, etc) that in general, out in public people are wearing masks, 95+% of them. 

Yet the spread isn’t stopped like the “science” said it would be. We have been “flattening the curve” for 9 months now and it was supposed to be 2-3 weeks. 

And I would love to see the evidence that the surge in in cases are from “family gatherings” and not just people being outside. 

The sports you mentioned haven’t done nearly as well as you say. Basketball did because of a full lockdown bubble. 

Baseball was horrible at the beginning. Two teams nearly missed like half the season. 

Colleges have had a number of cases and games canceled, look at Wisconsin. 

NFL has had to play bye week juggling because of all the cases canceling games. Almost every team has had players and coaches test positive and have to go quarantine. 

I think you are painting a Rosie picture of sports when really only the NBA did well with low/zero cases. The NFL and MLB has had serious changes to the schedule and moving things around. 

posted by justincredible

DeWine is addressing the state at 5:30 tomorrow. Is daddy going to ground us again?

Try it

posted by gut

How is that allowed to happen after all this time?

My wife is the Life Enrichment Director at the assisted living branch of an elder care campus.  There are two communal living buildings separate from the condos on the campus. These people are very near the end of their lives with varying degrees in quality of life.  

They do not like being confined to their rooms. They want to see their family.  They bitch about the plastic cups.  Most are willing to take the risk.  So there is a lot of pressure especially from those who are paying a lot of money from their life savings.  There is currently an outbreak in the communal buildings.  Administration is doing the best they can.  They are caught between a rock and a hard place.  No one is allowing this to happen.

posted by jmog

I think you are painting a Rosie picture of sports when really only the NBA did well with low/zero cases. The NFL and MLB has had serious changes to the schedule and moving things around. 

I'm talking actual cases/spread with team activities.  The NBA had a bubble.  The NFL has moved several games because of only a handful of cases, almost all of which originated outside team activities.

So, yes, absolutely I think sports makes a strong case that following protocols works.  Now how much of that is because of daily testing is a different argument.  But we have seen many cases among sporting teams, and because of distancing and masks the spreads have been contained.

Early on, it did seem like the lockdowns weren't having much effect.  But it clearly now looks like they did, and bars/restaurants have pretty clearly been a major source of spread.

The thing with lockdowns now vs back in March was there were hardly any known cases. It was breaking news when a county had its first case. Now we’re well over 6K a day. So I think it was easy to lock down then and prevent what was hardly occurring. 

People were also more motivated to lock down then than they are now. 

Lockdowns do nothing, but delay the inevitable.  Italy and most of Europe went on hard China like lockdowns, and here we are in the same position as the US.  I hate using this word, but anyone who is supportive of a lockdown at this point normally falls into the "privileged" category, where they can still get a paycheck while working from home.   Either that or they are introverted home bodies, that don't give a fuck either way. 

A lot of people in the US don't realize how restrictive these lockdowns really are/were.  All of these "lockdown" measures in the US were very mild in comparison. If the US tried to the same shit, I would hope our gun owners would fight it.  

Edit: I would also like to add that a mask mandate is not going to do what you all think it’s going to do.

I'm in a 14 day quarantine.  I have to stay indoors b/c that is what my county says.  Had close proximity contact with an asymptomatic person.  Wearing our masks, bus seat between us, but we were within that magical "6 feet."  I coach, and I have to miss my first game.  This is all so stupid. 

posted by gut

I'm talking actual cases/spread with team activities.  The NBA had a bubble.  The NFL has moved several games because of only a handful of cases, almost all of which originated outside team activities.

So, yes, absolutely I think sports makes a strong case that following protocols works.  Now how much of that is because of daily testing is a different argument.  But we have seen many cases among sporting teams, and because of distancing and masks the spreads have been contained.

Early on, it did seem like the lockdowns weren't having much effect.  But it clearly now looks like they did, and bars/restaurants have pretty clearly been a major source of spread.

1. So why lock down if as soon as you open up it is going to spread again anyway? The lockdown kills the economy yet the same number of people will get infected either way. 

2. Lockdowns just delay the inevitable which is exactly what all the evidence is showing, you even admitted it yourself even if accidentally.  You said that the lockdowns “worked” until we opened back up bars and restaurants. Unless the plan is to close everything forever then lockdowns in fact do not work as people either get infected now or in a few months when we open up.