Progressives, part 3...

DC wants to be a state. That's fine. What if a state decides it wants to leave the union? Should that be allowed?

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah, not if you were born in DC and your whole life has been in the District. If you want to have a Rep in Congress then, you must uproot your whole family and move to MD and VA? How fucked is that? 

Also, again, if my job is in DC, I have to live out of it and commute in if I want to vote? How is that not fucked up?

We are just telling 700k sorry, you just made the wrong choice? Doesn't sound very American to me. 

If you would move to be represented in congress, you haven't been paying attention to congress for the last 50 years, at minimum.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah...the people of MD do not want that. By a wiiiide margin. 

It solves the "problem". Bunch of fuckin' NIMBYs

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yes, they should be...

They have more population than Wyoming and Vermont. The DC Bill would carve out the federal areas, near the mall and federal buildings, which only take up 15-20% of the city. So, you can still have your federal areas that are stipulated in the Constitution.  It is insane that over 700k people have zero representation in Congress. 

Then do the carving out and send that part back to Maryland like they did with the Virginia part a long time ago (DC used to literally be a square, then Virginia got its part back).

Don't make it a state, send that part back to Maryland so they have representation.

Sorry Ptown, DC if they want representation they go back to Maryland, they don't get to become a freaking state. No other City is its own state, thats just asinine.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah, not if you were born in DC and your whole life has been in the District. If you want to have a Rep in Congress then, you must uproot your whole family and move to MD and VA? How fucked is that? 

Also, again, if my job is in DC, I have to live out of it and commute in if I want to vote? How is that not fucked up?

We are just telling 700k sorry, you just made the wrong choice? Doesn't sound very American to me. 

These guys don’t care, they just don’t want 2 more blue senators. It’s really that simple. 

posted by justincredible

DC wants to be a state. That's fine. What if a state decides it wants to leave the union? Should that be allowed?

I think the results from 1865 say that ya kinda can't do that. 

posted by jmog

Sorry Ptown, DC if they want representation they go back to Maryland, they don't get to become a freaking state. No other City is its own state, thats just asinine.

I guess shouldn't the opinion of the residents and what they want and the residents of Maryland come into play as well? Maryland fully supports DC having their own state and Maryland does not feel it is right to absorb them into their state. Speaking as someone who has lived in DC and MD, that is a widely held opinion. 

It just seems you guys are looking at the small size of DC and holding it against them, instead of the 700k people that live in the District and basically saying sorry it is not right for you guys to have full representation like all the other states even though we ask you to do everything else a citizen must do. 

No city is it's own state, sure, but they would still have more people than 2 other states. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I think the results from 1865 say that ya kinda can't do that. 

So a Hotel California situation? 

If, say, Texas tried, would violent force be justified to keep them from leaving?

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I guess shouldn't the opinion of the residents and what they want ...

posted by justincredible

So a Hotel California situation? 

If, say, Texas tried, would violent force be justified to keep them from leaving?

HA. Yeah. I mean it may be possible where maybe 2/3rds of the states vote to allow a state to leave. But, I doubt that would ever happen. 

I think if a state tried to leave without going through that process, I could see violence as an option to keep them in the Union. Then again, Texas wanted to join the Union once it gained its "independence" from Mexico. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I guess shouldn't the opinion of the residents and what they want and the residents of Maryland come into play as well? Maryland fully supports DC having their own state and Maryland does not feel it is right to absorb them into their state. Speaking as someone who has lived in DC and MD, that is a widely held opinion. 

It just seems you guys are looking at the small size of DC and holding it against them, instead of the 700k people that live in the District and basically saying sorry it is not right for you guys to have full representation like all the other states even though we ask you to do everything else a citizen must do. 

No city is it's own state, sure, but they would still have more people than 2 other states. 

DC was originally part of Maryland (at least the part of DC left as DC).

DC becoming a state vs reintegrating into Maryland is about as asinine as Cleveland ceding from Ohio to become their own state. 

Maryland is already left leaning, this would get them another couple seats in the HoR and they would be democratic seats. Maryland not wanting DC doesn’t make sense from a political standpoint.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah. That does not match with how much DC has grown since the founding. The idea was to just have a section for the working of the federal government. The DC statehood bill does that. It just takes that rest of the area and makes it its own state. Also, if we live in a democracy, which I think we still do, the fact that a wide majority of people living in DC want to be a state as well as a majority of people in MD and VA do not want to add them to their states is evidence they should be a state. 

Why don't we need another state? Is 50 just the right number now forever? Is there no way any other territory could become a state in your view? We just hit 50 states in 1949, and this is the longest in the country's history we have gone without adding a new state. 

The people feeding off the public trough in DC need no more clout - period.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

HA. Yeah. I mean it may be possible where maybe 2/3rds of the states vote to allow a state to leave. But, I doubt that would ever happen. 

I think if a state tried to leave without going through that process, I could see violence as an option to keep them in the Union. Then again, Texas wanted to join the Union once it gained its "independence" from Mexico. 

posted by Spock
If California wanted to leave......I bet it would happen.

Let the coastal counties go - fuck 'em; the rest of the state can carry on as a conservative stronghold.

This is why I like the idea of Jefferson. Sacramento does not represent NorCal. Let the conservative counties of Oregon join them and create a new state. I bet it'd actually vote in some libertarians. But, of course, liberals HATE the idea of Jefferson and conservatives HATE the idea of DC statehood so we're all held hostage by political parties that don't give a flying f*ck about anything that doesn't push their re-election.

It's all bullshit.

posted by SportsAndLady

Haha imagine living in a city/state/territory, and wanting to pass a bill. And someone from outside your city/state/territory says “no, you shouldn’t get this. You chose to live there”

Unreal logic 

I lived downtown for 7 years and still pay taxes there.  I have seen enough to jump on the “fuck making them a state” bandwagon.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Yeah...the people of MD do not want that. By a wiiiide margin. 

Aren’t you a MD resident? How do you feel about this?

posted by ptown_trojans_1

The size does not matter. Again, DC has more people than Wyoming and Vermont. Also, yes they have a local government, but have zero say so on any matters that happen within DC. Congress controls and dictates nearly everything in DC, yet DC has zero say so in the matter. 

The people are pushing it because it is about getting representation for 700k people. It is the literal reason we left England. The feds can tax DC, but they cannot voice their opinion on the matter. 

Also, sure they know they do not have the right to have Reps in Congress when a person moves here, but does that make it right or fair? What if you have to move here for a job from out of state and need to be near the office in DC? What then, you just don't have the right to voice your vote in Congress? Sorry, tough. It is dumb. 

It’s not about size, yet you’re entire post and argument is about size....

Also if you’re argument is about population you know DC is pretty fickle.  It’s not beyond imagination that many people can move out to the bordering states and significantly reduce DC’s population. It has happened before. Or (I hope to god) the Government significantly reduces it’s scope. In that case you would also see a drop. The bubble is going to burst in DC with how expensive housing is.

posted by justincredible

This is why I like the idea of Jefferson. Sacramento does not represent NorCal. Let the conservative counties of Oregon join them and create a new state. I bet it'd actually vote in some libertarians. But, of course, liberals HATE the idea of Jefferson and conservatives HATE the idea of DC statehood so we're all held hostage by political parties that don't give a flying f*ck about anything that doesn't push their re-election.

It's all bullshit.

This is exactly why the majority of  DC statehood supporters are full of shit. If you’re not ok with other areas of the country (like California) carving up their own representation, then you’re most likely full of shit. Ptown to be fair is the first guy I’ve seen support DC statehood and somewhat other states carving up their own representation. He’s the exception to the rule.

I’ll support DC statehood when other disenfranchised populations can do the same thing.