Disgusted with the Biden administration

Ptown obv agrees 

posted by iclfan2

Ptown obv agrees 

He disagrees on the facts.

They just sealed the few on the downright assault on our bank accounts for the next few years.

posted by jmog

He disagrees on the facts.

I still don't think you understand the concept that two people can look at the same set of facts and come to widely different conclusions. 

The last 6 plus years have proven the country is living in various information bubbles that lead to drastic different interpretation of facts, stats, news, etc. 

A public official and report can be released and people come to different opinions based on their own bubble, political bias, and media ecosystem.

You still cannot get that. You live in your bubble with facts that you interpret your own way. As I said, we are usually speaking different languages. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Governments sure, but bureaucracies follow procedures, sometimes too much. 

Bureaucracies are worse than elected officials and always have been.  They are not robots that are coded to follow rules.  They are human beings that are fully capable of using, not using, or manipulating those "procedures".

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I'll also disagree with the whole Russia hoax concept. Sounds like you are bias toward an outcome already. 

You are lecturing people that different people can come to different conclusions based on the same set of facts.  But I am biased. 

posted by majorspark

You are lecturing people that different people can come to different conclusions based on the same set of facts.  But I am biased. 

What explanation is there for seizing non-classified records from Trump?  Ptown pretends to not understand that law enforcement uses overly broad warrants all the time to search for evidence of other crimes. 

It's obvious to anyone capable of critical thought that there are one or more "investigations" that go beyond possessing classified documents.  But stating the obvious makes one a Jan6 conspiracy nut.

Garland has said releasing the affidavit would potentially jeopardize their investigation.  WUT?!?!  So, in other words, they are investigating something more than mishandling of classified documents.  Again, this was obvious based on what and how they searched and what they seized.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I still don't think you understand the concept that two people can look at the same set of facts and come to widely different conclusions. 

The last 6 plus years have proven the country is living in various information bubbles that lead to drastic different interpretation of facts, stats, news, etc. 

A public official and report can be released and people come to different opinions based on their own bubble, political bias, and media ecosystem.

You still cannot get that. You live in your bubble with facts that you interpret your own way. As I said, we are usually speaking different languages. 

Mind numbing. 

posted by QuakerOats

Mind numbing. 

Sources report that Trump sperm taken orally can have that effect

posted by gut

What explanation is there for seizing non-classified records from Trump?  Ptown pretends to not understand that law enforcement uses overly broad warrants all the time to search for evidence of other crimes. 

It's obvious to anyone capable of critical thought that there are one or more "investigations" that go beyond possessing classified documents.  But stating the obvious makes one a Jan6 conspiracy nut.

Garland has said releasing the affidavit would potentially jeopardize their investigation.  WUT?!?!  So, in other words, they are investigating something more than mishandling of classified documents.  Again, this was obvious based on what and how they searched and what they seized.

Trump does not own any of the documents. Not one. They should all be in the archives ( less the classified ones)

As far as  unsealing the affidavit, how do you protect the sources of the info before an indictment or trial?  Only Hillary gets that kind of information

posted by Devils Advocate

Trump does not own any of the documents. Not one. They should all be in the archives ( less the classified ones)

Some of the documents are likely his.  If that weren't the case, they would never box up records and send it with the outgoing POTUS rather than straight to the archives.  Every POTUS leaves with records that end-up in their Presidential Library, managed by the National Records Archives.

That would not be enough to justify a warrant.  A subpoena, perhaps.  And there supposedly was a subpoena for the classified records.  And the warrant would have focused only on the classified records, if it wasn't deliberately broad to facilitate a different purpose.

Again, if you think they raided his home and need to keep the affidavit secret only because he's in illegal possession of NRA records I've got a bridge to sell you.  There wouldn't be any investigation to compromise if it was simply a matter of retrieving records belonging to the NRA.

I wonder what records exist in the personal residences of other former living Presidents.  We will never know.

The term “raid” is waaaaayyyyy overstated.  He was told they were coming well in advance. His lawyer was there the whole time.  Some people Would  have you believe that  his house was swatted via no knock raid and his living quarters were left in shambles like they were occupying a crack house.

Not a "raid" just uninvited guests.  Like "war" and special military operation.

posted by gut

 Ptown pretends to not understand that law enforcement uses overly broad warrants all the time to search for evidence of other crimes. 

They often do in violation of the 4th amendment.

posted by majorspark

They often do in violation of the 4th amendment.

Yep, and good lawyers get that evidence thrown out.  But such fishing works or it wouldn't continue to be a common practice.

posted by Devils Advocate

The term “raid” is waaaaayyyyy overstated.

Ahh, yes.  Another new definition like recession, inflation, etc.

You make it sound as if Trump had an option to comply with the warrant.

posted by gut

Yep, and good lawyers get that evidence thrown out.  But such fishing works or it wouldn't continue to be a common practice.

I agree.  The average dude without money gets screwed.  But a former POTUS there is great power behind it.

posted by majorspark

Bureaucracies are worse than elected officials and always have been.  They are not robots that are coded to follow rules.  They are human beings that are fully capable of using, not using, or manipulating those "procedures".

They are terr, but the problem is our elected officials hide behind these bureaucrats, instead of actually doing their jobs.  This in my opinion, makes elected officials much worse. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

I still don't think you understand the concept that two people can look at the same set of facts and come to widely different conclusions. 

The last 6 plus years have proven the country is living in various information bubbles that lead to drastic different interpretation of facts, stats, news, etc. 

A public official and report can be released and people come to different opinions based on their own bubble, political bias, and media ecosystem.

You still cannot get that. You live in your bubble with facts that you interpret your own way. As I said, we are usually speaking different languages. 

I choose my words carefully. You now say we have different opinions, which is true. Opinions can be different. Facts can not be different. There are facts in the FISA court/Steele Dossier that cannot be disputed that directly lead to a false investigation as stated by the actual judge later.

You can’t disagree with that, as those are the facts.