9 Dead in Dayton....

posted by Spock

1.  Juvenile records are sealed......would not have shown up.

2.  The magazine he was using was illegal.  More laws dont stop criminals.  They dont care about them.

I think he was a senior when this happened so he could have been 18. Either way that's a stupid exception. And I'm not talking about adding more laws. I'm a fan of enforcing what we have now. I understand modifications were made after the fact. IMO he shouldn't have had any gun in the first place because he was a fucking lunatic. 

posted by friendfromlowry

Gotcha. Thanks. It's too bad when doing the background check, a big red flag doesn't appear showing something like "Hey he was expelled in high school for having a list of kids he'd kill and rape, he probably shouldn't have a gun." 

I think this is one of the biggest issues that needs fixed. Many of these people are fucked up in the head and nothing is done about it or can be done about it.

This article is interesting talking about Stop Orders, but you run into a ton of legal issues.

https://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2019/08/03/ducey-plans-renewal-of-gun-control-measure/

I saw something the other day (before the El Paso shooting) that I thought was an interesting ... and perhaps helpful ... take.

Over a certain age, access to guns is pretty equal across the board.  There really isn't an institution that makes guns more available to one subset of the adult population over another.

Having said that, the study I saw had the information listed for the 114 mass shootings that they'd catalogued since 1982 (per Congress' definition of a mass shooting).  Of the 114 mass shootings, the shooter(s) were all male in 110 of them (during that time, there were three lone female shooters and the one male/female team from San Bernadino back in 2015).

Given that women have equal access to firearms and account for roughly 50% of the population, that seems pretty drastic.  The racial lines mostly fluctuate in a commensurate fashion with overall population ratios (eg. ~60% of the population are non-Latin whites; non-Latin whites account for ~60% of the mass shootings), but the sex distinction seems telling on the surface.

posted by geeblock

Blaming fortnite is the dumbest thing I have ever heard of 

https://mobile.twitter.com/slasher/status/1158024870833328128

 

I love the total lack of logic some of these people use to make their points. Like, from the post Fab had from this twatmuffin, it's obvious she's of the view that guns don't kill people, people kill people with the guns just being the method of choice. That is logical and I agree with that point of view. And then she utterly destroys the concept of logic by scattering the "blame" between about five million other things that are all moron talking points and have nothing to do with personal responsibility, mental health or anything remotely at the heart of the problem. She's as big of an idiot as any of the "ban all guns!!!!" dipshits.

posted by friendfromlowry

Gotcha. Thanks. It's too bad when doing the background check, a big red flag doesn't appear showing something like "Hey he was expelled in high school for having a list of kids he'd kill and rape, he probably shouldn't have a gun." 

Even when that happens, it doesn't prevent this shit.  The Stoneman Douglas shooter was reported to the police 20+ times and they didn't do shit (including going in to save lives).  Instead, their Sheriff went on national TV to blame every pro 2A citizen in this country. 

posted by Heretic

I love the total lack of logic some of these people use to make their points. Like, from the post Fab had from this twatmuffin, it's obvious she's of the view that guns don't kill people, people kill people with the guns just being the method of choice. That is logical and I agree with that point of view. And then she utterly destroys the concept of logic by scattering the "blame" between about five million other things that are all moron talking points and have nothing to do with personal responsibility, mental health or anything remotely at the heart of the problem. She's as big of an idiot as any of the "ban all guns!!!!" dipshits.

It's like we are living in the 90's again.  There isn't one single cause of this shit.  It's a mixture of many things, that apparently lead to depression.  Looking into mind altering medications would be a start.  I remember reading it was something crazy like 90% of these shooters were on some type of medication at least 1 year leading up to their crime. 

posted by Spock

It was the pic of the word Tump spelled out with guns.  BS...the kid wasnt a trump fan but the radicals Trump haters have to make it about him

Wrong shooter.

posted by justincredible

Wrong shooter.

How sad is this?  Apparently too many to keep straight.

posted by like_that

Even when that happens, it doesn't prevent this shit.  The Stoneman Douglas shooter was reported to the police 20+ times and they didn't do shit (including going in to save lives).  Instead, their Sheriff went on national TV to blame every pro 2A citizen in this country. 

When what happens? I had to go back and refresh myself on Stoneman Douglas because this shit happens so frequently now. But it sounds like there were a lot of similarities between Cruz and Betts. Both troubled students who everyone agrees probably should have never owned a gun. And I understand we approach a slippery slope when/if we account for subjective concerns (i.e Cruz's teacher said he was a potential threat to classmates, he wasn't allowed to wear a backpack on campus) but it's like FFS the school was basically waiting for this to happen and it did with weapons they purchased legally. 

posted by friendfromlowry

When what happens? I had to go back and refresh myself on Stoneman Douglas because this shit happens so frequently now. But it sounds like there were a lot of similarities between Cruz and Betts. Both troubled students who everyone agrees probably should have never owned a gun. And I understand we approach a slippery slope when/if we account for subjective concerns (i.e Cruz's teacher said he was a potential threat to classmates, he wasn't allowed to wear a backpack on campus) but it's like FFS the school was basically waiting for this to happen and it did with weapons they purchased legally. 

Meaning when there is a big red flag (or about 20 of them in the case of the stoneman shooter), people still don't do their jobs.  How can people cry to pass more laws, when time and time again we fail to enforce the current laws on the books? 

Something this Connor kid in Dayton retweeted earlier on August 3rd:


Not sure why some of it is in Thai (pulled it from Wayback Machine, since his Twitter account is currently suspended), but that's creepy.

posted by like_that

Meaning when there is a big red flag (or about 20 of them in the case of the stoneman shooter), people still don't do their jobs.  How can people cry to pass more laws, when time and time again we fail to enforce the current laws on the books? 

For the record, I'm not necessarily advocating for more laws. It just gets old when after the fact everyone comes out of the woodwork commenting on how much of a weirdo he was, the cops were always at their house, they were expelled from school for having a list of people they wanted to murder, etc. Let's get it right and stop selling fucking guns to people who, with a little more research, turns out they're sick individuals.

posted by friendfromlowry

For the record, I'm not necessarily advocating for more laws. It just gets old when after the fact everyone comes out of the woodwork commenting on how much of a weirdo he was, the cops were always at their house, they were expelled from school for having a list of people they wanted to murder, etc. Let's get it right and stop selling fucking guns to people who, with a little more research, turns out they're sick individuals.

I know you're not, I just wanted to point on even when red flags are detected, our laws are still not enforced.  Not giving guns to these people would be a start, but in the long run it would be more effective to figure out why these people are so depressed/fucked in the mind, that it would lead them to this.  Nobody wants to do this, because there are lot of tough to swallow pills when it comes to our societal problems.  It's much easier to advocate or pass "feel good" laws, than actually address the underlying causes.  

Edit: Although, I do believe there is a quick and easy fix (not going to fix everything) to help decrease all gun crime in general. 

posted by like_that

I know you're not, I just wanted to point on even when red flags are detected, our laws are still not enforced.

Isn't what people are talking about basically the movie Minority Report?

Like I said, some of these people are/were known, but do we start locking people up or committing them for a crime they MIGHT commit?  So we're going to lock-up 100?  1000? people for every shooting we prevent?

Sure, take away the guns.  I'm sure we'll be really good at keeping illegal guns out of our country, just like with illegal drugs and illegal immigrants.

posted by gut

Isn't what people are talking about basically the movie Minority Report?

Like I said, some of these people are/were known, but do we start locking people up or committing them for a crime they MIGHT commit?  So we're going to lock-up 100?  1000? people for every shooting we prevent?

 

Sure, take away the guns.  I'm sure we'll be really good at keeping illegal guns out of our country, just like with illegal drugs and illegal immigrants.

I am not sure this thread is going that far lol, unless I missed those posts.  I think it's moreso not allowing these people to have guns.   I agree it a slippery slope though.  I lean toward the pro 2A side of not giving up an inch.  There are much better fixes to end these type of crimes than taking away people's rights imo. 

posted by like_that

Edit: Although, I do believe there is a quick and easy fix (not going to fix everything) to help decrease all gun crime in general. 

I'm curious where you were going with this.

posted by like_that

I am not sure this thread is going that far lol, unless I missed those posts.  I think it's moreso not allowing these people to have guns.   I agree it a slippery slope though.  I lean toward the pro 2A side of not giving up an inch.  There are much better fixes to end these type of crimes than taking away people's rights imo. 

I just wonder if these people are too chicken shit to seek out and buy an illegal gun.  I think if you're going to murder people, that's a risk you're probably willing to take.  And if you're talking about mental health treatment and/or drugs, do these people have the support group for that to work?

posted by O-Trap

I'm curious where you were going with this.

 

 

I've stated this view before, but ending the war on drugs would reduce crime significantly.  Considering most gun crime is surrounded by gang activity (aka drugs). 

As for the people taking in SRIs, I would be interested to see if they traded in SRIs for weed.  I could be wrong, but has there very been a stoner pulling the shit we see with these people? 

posted by geeblock

My goodness 

https://www.10tv.com/article/ohio-lawmaker-blames-dayton-shootings-gay-marriage-marijuana-video-games-2019-aug

 

It's hard to believe she left out fluoridation, chemtrails, tan suits, and Tinky Winky.

People voted for this dingbat?

Then there is this idiot 

https://mobile.twitter.com/illbeast/status/1158104213538443265

posted by geeblock

Then there is this idiot 

https://mobile.twitter.com/illbeast/status/1158104213538443265

Woof.