9 Dead in Dayton....

posted by like_that

I am not sure this thread is going that far lol, unless I missed those posts.  I think it's moreso not allowing these people to have guns.   I agree it a slippery slope though.  I lean toward the pro 2A side of not giving up an inch.  There are much better fixes to end these type of crimes than taking away people's rights imo. 

I might’ve confused people since I said if we did that, and treated them as middle eastern threats, it would end real quick. But I wasn’t advocating to do that. Just saying investing that kind of money, effort and jail time/interrogation would curb this quickly, imo. It’s just not feasible to do to your own citizens, on their own soil.

I think we have done a disservice to people when they are young.  When we were in elementary school, if a kid wasnt "normal" or had a learning disability he was sent to the little room down the hall.  They were aware they were different or that they had something wrong with them and the learned how to deal with it.

Now these kids are all in unrestricted environments, told that they are normal, and they grow up and the real world runs them over.

posted by Spock

I think we have done a disservice to people when they are young.  When we were in elementary school, if a kid wasnt "normal" or had a learning disability he was sent to the little room down the hall.  They were aware they were different or that they had something wrong with them and the learned how to deal with it.

 

Now these kids are all in unrestricted environments, told that they are normal, and they grow up and the real world runs them over.

 

 

I hope u are joking 

posted by Spock

I think we have done a disservice to people when they are young.  When we were in elementary school, if a kid wasnt "normal" or had a learning disability he was sent to the little room down the hall.  They were aware they were different or that they had something wrong with them and the learned how to deal with it.

 

Now these kids are all in unrestricted environments, told that they are normal, and they grow up and the real world runs them over.

 

 

Jesus Christ, you're a known educator.  How can you fucking type these words?

I am not an educator

posted by ernest_t_bass

Jesus Christ, you're a known educator.  How can you fucking type these words?

That post was just an example of how this issue isn't a gun issue.  It's a societal issue.  We have a fundamental flaw in how the people in the US are being raised.  

People keep making the case that these shootings don't take place in other countries.   The reason isn't gun laws....the reason is the way  youth are raised

This idea is worse than Spock’s 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bad_takes/status/1158548808323780608

posted by Spock

That post was just an example of how this issue isn't a gun issue.  It's a societal issue.  We have a fundamental flaw in how the people in the US are being raised.  

 

People keep making the case that these shootings don't take place in other countries.   The reason isn't gun laws....the reason is the way  youth are raised

It’s a gun issue and a societal issue. By next week no one will care and move on to the next story. They certainly aren’t going to allow increased health care or higher taxes to allow people access to mental health providers so  why even bring up the societal issue part. I think we can at least require more stringent requirements for certain guns. We do it for plenty of other things like selling lemonade or bottled water 

posted by Spock

That post was just an example of how this issue isn't a gun issue.  It's a societal issue.  We have a fundamental flaw in how the people in the US are being raised.  

 

People keep making the case that these shootings don't take place in other countries.   The reason isn't gun laws....the reason is the way  youth are raised

How do other countries treat their "different" students?

posted by geeblock

It’s a gun issue and a societal issue. By next week no one will care and move on to the next story.

I'm not sure it is a gun issue.  Women have had equal access to the same firearms over the last 37 years, and they've committed exactly four mass shootings in that time.

Same access. Same selection. Same country. Same laws. The only difference is that they're female.

Males in the same time frame have committed 111.

posted by O-Trap

I'm not sure it is a gun issue.  Women have had equal access to the same firearms over the last 37 years, and they've committed exactly four mass shootings in that time.

Same access. Same selection. Same country. Same laws. The only difference is that they're female.

Males in the same time frame have committed 111.

Your numbers don't add up. We've had 250 this year alone. :rolleyes:

posted by justincredible

Your numbers don't add up. We've had 250 this year alone. :rolleyes:

The Gun Violence Archive has different criteria than the official congressional definition.
I'm using the official congressional definition (from which any federally figured statistics are gleaned), which identifies a mass shooting as any single event in which more than three people (excluding the shooter(s)) are killed by one or more gunmen.

posted by O-Trap

I'm not sure it is a gun issue.  Women have had equal access to the same firearms over the last 37 years, and they've committed exactly four mass shootings in that time.

Same access. Same selection. Same country. Same laws. The only difference is that they're female.

Males in the same time frame have committed 111.

I think the gun issue part is that it’s too easy to get them. U can’t buy cigarettes until 21 but can get an ar-15 at 18. That doesn’t make sense to me 

posted by geeblock

I think the gun issue part is that it’s too easy to get them. U can’t buy cigarettes until 21 but can get an ar-15 at 18. That doesn’t make sense to me 

But my point is that women have had that same exact ease of access, and to the same kinds and number of firearms.  AR-15s are just as available to women as they are to men.  High-capacity mags are just as available.  Armor-piercing rounds are just as available.  Body armor is just as available.  There's no extra legal or institutional barrier that makes the access for women any more difficult.

And yet, women have only been involved in mass shootings about once every 9 years and 3 months during the last 37 years.  For a population of over 117 million women (roughly the female population at the beginning of this span of time), that's pretty remarkable.

Why is it that women, who have had this same ease of access, who have had the same options available, who have lived in the same cities, who are governed by the same laws (and absence of laws), and who exist in about the same number, have been involved in so few mass shootings?

This needs answered, I think.  During the time in which we've been saying the males who have committed so many heinous acts have had too easy access, the women in our country have had the same access, but the result has been starkly different.

I think the actual answer exists there.  What is it about our cultural values, societal norms, or pressures causes our males to respond so differently from our females with the exact same access to firearms.

posted by O-Trap

But my point is that women have had that same exact ease of access, and to the same kinds and number of firearms.  AR-15s are just as available to women as they are to men.  High-capacity mags are just as available.  Armor-piercing rounds are just as available.  Body armor is just as available.  There's no extra legal or institutional barrier that makes the access for women any more difficult.

And yet, women have only been involved in mass shootings about once every 9 years and 3 months during the last 37 years.  For a population of over 117 million women (roughly the female population at the beginning of this span of time), that's pretty remarkable.

Why is it that women, who have had this same ease of access, who have had the same options available, who have lived in the same cities, who are governed by the same laws (and absence of laws), and who exist in about the same number, have been involved in so few mass shootings?

This needs answered, I think.  During the time in which we've been saying the males who have committed so many heinous acts have had too easy access, the women in our country have had the same access, but the result has been starkly different.

I think the actual answer exists there.  What is it about our cultural values, societal norms, or pressures causes our males to respond so differently from our females with the exact same access to firearms.

I don’t know the numbers but  I would guess women also commit murder at a much lower rate than men. I think women in general are more empathetic towards life both environmentally and maybe genetically? 

posted by geeblock

I don’t know the numbers but  I would guess women also commit murder at a much lower rate than men. I think women in general are more empathetic towards life both environmentally and maybe genetically? 

Oh, I think you're probably right.  So what is it that makes males who have the same exact access to firearms as women so much more likely to not show empathy or to display acts of violence, particularly in America, where this discrepancy is significantly wider than in other countries?

posted by geeblock

It’s a gun issue and a societal issue. By next week no one will care and move on to the next story. They certainly aren’t going to allow increased health care or higher taxes to allow people access to mental health providers so  why even bring up the societal issue part. I think we can at least require more stringent requirements for certain guns. We do it for plenty of other things like selling lemonade or bottled water 

Don’t worry, we’ll care next week because there will probably have been another shooting by then. 

posted by O-Trap

Oh, I think you're probably right.  So what is it that makes males who have the same exact access to firearms as women so much more likely to not show empathy or to display acts of violence, particularly in America, where this discrepancy is significantly wider than in other countries?

I saw someone try to bring up this point about women not committing mass murder in Twitter and they were immediately devoured by the “ mass murder by abortion” crowd 

posted by geeblock

I saw someone try to bring up this point about women not committing mass murder in Twitter and they were immediately devoured by the “ mass murder by abortion” crowd 

Ah, yeah.  Sometimes trying to have a conversation with that crowd seems nearly impossible if you disagree with them on any other issue, because they'll find a way to steer it toward abortion.

I have strong views on the issue, but I've given up trying to have a calm, reasonable conversation on the topic.