Israel-Palestine

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You can't, but Israel is going to try. If it was easy, would have been done. 

I am equating them because a dead civilian kid is the same no matter the side, doesn't matter if it how Hamas did it or an Israeli airstrike. 

 

So beheading babies is equivalent to civilians caught in a rocket or bombing raid…even though Israel has told all civilians to leave Gaza?

No way morally you believe that.

Sure a narcissist would say “1 child vs 1 child dead, it’s the same”

But good God man, purposefully beheading a baby vs a child lost in collateral damage? They aren’t even close on the moral relativistic scale.

Yes both are tragic, but everyone can see one is far more heinous.   

posted by ptown_trojans_1

A dead civilian is still a dead civilian. It doesn't matter which side it is on is my point. Both are tragic and are equally weighted. A dead kid is still a dead kid. 

Do posters on here value Israeli lives more than Palestinian lives? Serious question. 

If thousands of Palestinian die in this invasion, does it matter? Or, are they all terrorists? Or, just numbers in war? 

Ok, let me try again.

Example 1: I shoot a baby in the head with my gun.

Example 2: I am driving down the street and a child runs out in front of my car and dies because I couldn’t stop in time.

Both instances are tragic  but one is morally sickening the other is an accident that happens in life.

They are not “equal” morally, only narcissistic to believe “well in both cases a child died so the person who killed them is terrible in both cases”

There’s no way ptown really is this morally off right?

posted by jmog

There’s no way ptown really is this morally off right?

Always need to be right, no?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Always need to be right, no?

Willing to be wrong here, but beheading babies is worse than civilian casualties in a war, I figured that was pretty common sense to me   

posted by jmog

There’s no way ptown really is this morally off right?

He’s proven himself a leftist clown multiple times over, it’s not surprising 

Lots of personal attacks here. Well done! 

It would be great if everyone could recognize that some battles aren't worth having, especially when you know you're not changing the hearts and minds of the other party. Gonna bring back thread bans for old times sake.

Here’s something to consider:

The Jews and Muslims have fought for a long time - centuries.  The most recent iteration was the forming of Israel which, because of the collective world’s sympathy with the Jews after WW2, received unconditional backing of western powers.  The US has chosen to often put Israel’s needs ahead of its own and the two have made a lot of enemies as a result. Regardless of activities over the millennia, during this past century, the Jews forced hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of their homes with the full backing of the US (and God according to evangelicals).  

Having provided Palestinians with no possibility to build a monied society, the stage is set for the leaders of a bloodthirsty religion/political order to take control. And here we are today.  No surprise that terrorist attacks are happening as this is the only way the Muslims can see to fight out of their walled compound.  The Muslim fighters are sick. 

And we will continue to involve ourselves on behalf of Israel even though it is none of our concern. 

posted by jmog

Willing to be wrong here, but beheading babies is worse than civilian casualties in a war, I figured that was pretty common sense to me   

I'd agree with that point, but add the caveat that this is by purpose due to the nature of the conflict. One side is noticeably more advanced as far as military stuff goes and has a very powerful big brother that typically backs them up, giving them the ability to totally shell the hell out of the other side. So, the other side attempts to level the field a bit by inspiring fear via doing stuff that civilized people would consider an atrocity.

If anything, reminds me of studying the time period when European colonists settled America and pushed the Indians out of their lands. The colonists were more advanced military-wise, but the Indians were able to make it tough on them by using guerilla tactics and being very creative in finding horrible ways to torture and kill people they captured.

I'd argue that if you're arguing morality when it comes to war and conflict, you're lucky enough to be far away from it and that, if you are part of it, your only real concern is doing whatever it takes to win -- whether that be using force to crush the opposition or using atrocities to demoralize them.

posted by Heretic

I'd argue that if you're arguing morality when it comes to war and conflict, you're lucky enough to be far away from it and that, if you are part of it, your only real concern is doing whatever it takes to win -- whether that be using force to crush the opposition or using atrocities to demoralize them.

I'd argue the Palestinian/Hamas side has it completely within their control to end the violence and bloodshed.

Keep kicking the hornet's nest and then complain how evil hornets are after getting stung.

posted by Heretic

I'd agree with that point, but add the caveat that this is by purpose due to the nature of the conflict. One side is noticeably more advanced as far as military stuff goes and has a very powerful big brother that typically backs them up, giving them the ability to totally shell the hell out of the other side. So, the other side attempts to level the field a bit by inspiring fear via doing stuff that civilized people would consider an atrocity.

If anything, reminds me of studying the time period when European colonists settled America and pushed the Indians out of their lands. The colonists were more advanced military-wise, but the Indians were able to make it tough on them by using guerilla tactics and being very creative in finding horrible ways to torture and kill people they captured.

I'd argue that if you're arguing morality when it comes to war and conflict, you're lucky enough to be far away from it and that, if you are part of it, your only real concern is doing whatever it takes to win -- whether that be using force to crush the opposition or using atrocities to demoralize them.

Perhaps their grandparents or great-grandparents got a bad deal in 1948, but that doesn't excuse the behavior of the people today. We all descend from some group of people who were treated unfairly at some point in history. We can't just do violent actions against those groups for something that happened generations ago.

So, is it now ok to say all lives matter? Seems to be the case according to the left. 

posted by like_that

So, is it now ok to say all lives matter? Seems to be the case according to the left. 

There's so much anti-semitism on the Left that it's hard to believe 70% of Jewish Americans still vote Democrat.

But I suppose that's offset by Trump saying "Hamas is very very smart".  Do you suppose there's a chance that bronzer he's been using all these years is lead-based?

posted by gut

There's so much anti-semitism on the Left that it's hard to believe 70% of Jewish Americans still vote Democrat.

But I suppose that's offset by Trump saying "Hamas is very very smart".  Do you suppose there's a chance that bronzer he's been using all these years is lead-based?

To be fair, Hamas is “smart”, but so was the Unabomber, he was a certified genius, just a terrorist

Bexley (Columbus area) Ohio - random male walks up to a Jewish woman’s home and yells “you Zionist pigs are f*cking disgusting!”

Are we in 1939 or 2023? Share and help identify this appalling antisemite! pic.twitter.com/d9AX42Ldew

— StopAntisemitism (@StopAntisemites) October 15, 2023

posted by gut

There's so much anti-semitism on the Left that it's hard to believe 70% of Jewish Americans still vote Democrat.

But I suppose that's offset by Trump saying "Hamas is very very smart".  Do you suppose there's a chance that bronzer he's been using all these years is lead-based?

Look how much hate Israel gets for civilian casualties when they retaliate.

Hamas shoots rockets from hospitals and schools then cries wolf when innocent civilians die from the retaliation.

It’s very smart, as Hamas you start all the shit but have a huge portion of the narrative yelling at Israel for “war crimes”.

Sinister and terrorist like, but definitely smart.

posted by gut

There's so much anti-semitism on the Left that it's hard to believe 70% of Jewish Americans still vote Democrat.

But I suppose that's offset by Trump saying "Hamas is very very smart".  Do you suppose there's a chance that bronzer he's been using all these years is lead-based?

1.) I lol'd at the bronzer statement 

2.) Cancer is a "smart' disease. But when I say that, it's not an approval and there's no admiration 

posted by justincredible

Bexley (Columbus area) Ohio - random male walks up to a Jewish woman’s home and yells “you Zionist pigs are f*cking disgusting!”

Are we in 1939 or 2023? Share and help identify this appalling antisemite! pic.twitter.com/d9AX42Ldew

— StopAntisemitism (@StopAntisemites) October 15, 2023

Just saw where he was arrested yesterday. 

500-900 (so far) dead in Palestine from a hospital being blown up. 

Reports are it was Isreali; misfired Hamas; and I have even seen intentional Hamas.