2020 Presidential Election thread

posted by CenterBHSFan

Five days ago, dude. I can't remember what I was looking at 10 minutes ago haha! But I'll go look at my twitter feed because I think that I might have replied to a quote tweet about him. Let me go see.

*Edit
Yeah, not seeing that I replied to anything. I probably just saw the tweet. Not sure. But there for a few days, seems like every blue check mark was talking about it.

So you decided to say that Pete starts everything with “I’m gay!” Because you saw one tweet. And you guys wonder why I say this place can sometimes be a right wing cesspool. Smearing a democratic candidate for leading with his sexuality when in fact he doesn’t do it. Not a good look

posted by SportsAndLady

So you decided to say that Pete starts everything with “I’m gay!” Because you saw one tweet. And you guys wonder why I say this place can sometimes be a right wing cesspool. Smearing a democratic candidate for leading with his sexuality when in fact he doesn’t do it. Not a good look

Um, no. That's not what I was saying. I saw several people quote tweeting and thought I had replied to one, but I didn't find it (what I thought I had replied to), so I just thought that i had just saw it. I didn't spend a lot of time looking for it, either, just glanced down through a few scrolls.
I also never said anything about "one tweet" and I certain never smeared the guy. Why would you even say that? You can believe all you want to that this is "a right wing cesspool" but at least be fair in your assessment. 

I see this on this site all the time - people misrepresenting what others have said. How about stop it? It's hard enough to try to be fair and have a decent discussion without that kind of jackassery. Mistakes can happen often enough, no need to misrepresent just for the sake of making a point.

posted by CenterBHSFan

Um, no. That's not what I was saying. I saw several people quote tweeting and thought I had replied to one, but I didn't find it (what I thought I had replied to), so I just thought that i had just saw it. I didn't spend a lot of time looking for it, either, just glanced down through a few scrolls.
I also never said anything about "one tweet" and I certain never smeared the guy. Why would you even say that? You can believe all you want to that this is "a right wing cesspool" but at least be fair in your assessment. 

I see this on this site all the time - people misrepresenting what others have said. How about stop it? It's hard enough to try to be fair and have a decent discussion without that kind of jackassery. Mistakes can happen often enough, no need to misrepresent just for the sake of making a point.

Lol. You quoted your own post. You were attempting to smear him because he leads with his sexuality. When in fact he doesn’t. 

How are we supposed to have a fair and decent conversation when you (sometimes) post non-factual info? 

SnL, if you think you can narrow down all of my thoughts about Buttigieg in two posts about him leading/not leading with "I'm gay!" then I'll give you a billion dollars to give me the same kind of crystal ball that you have lol!

I've said nothing about the fact that I think his military experience is a plus (I've always thought this about various presidents and people who were running), I like the fact that he thinks the left are edging towards authoritarianism and that freedom shouldn't be owned by the republicans right now. I like the fact that he doesn't think terrorists should have the right to vote. 

I don't like the fact that he led with "I'm gay!" once or a thousand times. Because IMO it's just a sexuality and I'm not into the identity politics thing; which both the left and right are partaking of lately. 

For the record, in one of my quotes, I was very willing to give HIM the benefit of the doubt and said that maybe it was the people who are running his campaign that ran with his sexuality and that I didn't know. But sure, I smeared him. Ok.

But of course, that makes me part of the cesspool. But go ahead and keep dragging this out, it's obviously giving you something, whatever that something is is immaterial. After all, this forum is just as much for your enjoyment as it is anybody elses.

posted by CenterBHSFan

SnL, if you think you can narrow down all of my thoughts about Buttigieg in two posts about him leading/not leading with "I'm gay!" then I'll give you a billion dollars to give me the same kind of crystal ball that you have lol!

I've said nothing about the fact that I think his military experience is a plus (I've always thought this about various presidents and people who were running), I like the fact that he thinks the left are edging towards authoritarianism and that freedom shouldn't be owned by the republicans right now. I like the fact that he doesn't think terrorists should have the right to vote. 

I don't like the fact that he led with "I'm gay!" once or a thousand times. Because IMO it's just a sexuality and I'm not into the identity politics thing; which both the left and right are partaking of lately. 

For the record, in one of my quotes, I was very willing to give HIM the benefit of the doubt and said that maybe it was the people who are running his campaign that ran with his sexuality and that I didn't know. But sure, I smeared him. Ok.

But of course, that makes me part of the cesspool. But go ahead and keep dragging this out, it's obviously giving you something, whatever that something is is immaterial. After all, this forum is just as much for your enjoyment as it is anybody elses.

Lol, you don’t have to get so worked up over this. You guys wanted an example of why I thought this place is heavily right winged, and I provided one. Relax

posted by SportsAndLady

Lol, you don’t have to get so worked up over this. You guys wanted an example of why I thought this place is heavily right winged, and I provided one. Relax

I don't think anyone ever argued that the OC wasn't right winged.  Even when the bulk of the left wing posters were active on this site, it was still a right leaning website.  If you didn't know that, you obviously were not active in the politics forum enough to give a fuck. 

My question as it was 2-3 weeks ago, was what is your basis for saying this site all of a sudden moved much more to the right?  I can see the argument that the left wing posters aren't around anymore to counteract the right wing arguments, but that was not your argument.  You claimed this site has moved further to the right (as in the posters ideologies have moved to the right) and so far the only argument to support this is you saying  "if you can't see it I don't know what to tell you."  Thus why I said it was a weak and lazy argument.  I think most of the active political posters on this site have remained principled with their beliefs whether you like them or not.  

Also for those who will bring up identifying as libertarians, I think there is a good argument that libertarianism is inherently right moderate leaning at a minimum. 

posted by like_that

Also for those who will bring up identifying as libertarians, I think there is a good argument that libertarianism is inherently right moderate leaning at a minimum. 

Ehhh, it's a true [socially] liberal position, that now appears right leaning because the left has gone batshit over identity politics.  And then on fiscal, it's a traditionally conservative position.

I feel like the left reflexively labels libertarians as right-wingers, mainly because everyone that disagrees with them gets labeled right-winger in order to dismiss them.

More broadly, if you are for smaller govt, especially federal - which aligns both socially and fiscally for libertarians - then you are considered at least right-leaning according to the modern big-Fed Democratic party.  The irony is the Repubs aren't really any less big-Fed than Democrats.

posted by gut

Ehhh, it's a true [socially] liberal position, that now appears right leaning because the left has gone batshit over identity politics.  And then on fiscal, it's a traditionally conservative position.

I feel like the left reflexively labels libertarians as right-wingers, mainly because everyone that disagrees with them gets labeled right-winger in order to dismiss them.

More broadly, if you are for smaller govt, especially federal - which aligns both socially and fiscally for libertarians - then you are considered at least right-leaning according to the modern big-Fed Democratic party.  The irony is the Repubs aren't really any less big-Fed than Democrats.

Libertarians are more stay the fuck out of my business and I will stay out of yours as long as there is no harm being done.  You apply this for example whether you like/dislike or agree/disagree with the entire LGBTQ community. The main arguments for libertarianism are property rights, autonomy, limited government, and fiscal conservatism.  That's all inherently right leaning. This is why you see senators and represenatives with liberarian leanins in the GOP.  I can't think of any dem you would identify with libertarian leanings. 

posted by like_that

Libertarians are more stay the fuck out of my business and I will stay out of yours as long as there is no harm being done. 

But that's pretty much classic liberalism.  Classic conservatism is more statist in nature, and cultural values rooted in religion (as opposed to individual liberty).

Like I've said before, the left is not classic liberalism...they've moved so far left they are starting to circle all the way around to fascism.

Ahhh, yes. You guys are definitely not republicans/right wing. You’re libertarians! You actually lean left but you just APPEAR to be right leaning because those darn lefties have just pushed so far left!

never change, OC, never change. 

posted by SportsAndLady

Ahhh, yes. You guys are definitely not republicans/right wing. You’re libertarians! You actually lean left but you just APPEAR to be right leaning because those darn lefties have just pushed so far left!

never change, OC, never change. 

LOL, you seem to be taking on the roll of Sleeper....does this mean you will be leaving us soon?

You can't be that dense to disagree with what I said about Libertarian and classic liberalism....you just be like "derp....right winger", which is a classic libtard response.  Maybe you were Sleeper all this time?

Maybe you were too young to notice, but about 20 years ago Democrats wanted to do away with labels and instead focused on the individual and uniqueness, wanting to eliminate the entire concept of gender, for example.  They were much more about tolerance, as opposed to today's goals of forced accomodation.  So, yes, 20 years ago that party was very much more classic liberalism....but have today moved much further left.

That's all for today's lesson.

posted by SportsAndLady

Ahhh, yes. You guys are definitely not republicans/right wing. You’re libertarians! You actually lean left but you just APPEAR to be right leaning because those darn lefties have just pushed so far left!

never change, OC, never change. 

I would argue you are more Republican than gut or me, but please continue to avoid simple questions (because you don't have a legitimate answer) for the sake of trying too hard to troll and pretend you are different than everyone else on this site lol. 

posted by gut

LOL, you seem to be taking on the roll of Sleeper....does this mean you will be leaving us soon?

You can't be that dense to disagree with what I said about Libertarian and classic liberalism....you just be like "derp....right winger", which is a classic libtard response.  Maybe you were Sleeper all this time?

Maybe you were too young to notice, but about 20 years ago Democrats wanted to do away with labels and instead focused on the individual and uniqueness, wanting to eliminate the entire concept of gender, for example.  They were much more about tolerance, as opposed to today's goals of forced accomodation.  So, yes, 20 years ago that party was very much more classic liberalism....but have today moved much further left.

That's all for today's lesson.

So this is the part where you call people trolls or a completely other poster (that you didn’t agree with) because they call you out? So far so good, this all checks out!

posted by SportsAndLady

Lol. You quoted your own post. You were attempting to smear him because he leads with his sexuality. When in fact he doesn’t. 

How are we supposed to have a fair and decent conversation when you (sometimes) post non-factual info? 

But he is using/leads with his sexuality with regards to the Pence feud. That maybe the only case but it is still a case where he does lead with it. 

posted by like_that

I don't think anyone ever argued that the OC wasn't right winged.  Even when the bulk of the left wing posters were active on this site, it was still a right leaning website.  If you didn't know that, you obviously were not active in the politics forum enough to give a fuck. 

My question as it was 2-3 weeks ago, was what is your basis for saying this site all of a sudden moved much more to the right?  I can see the argument that the left wing posters aren't around anymore to counteract the right wing arguments, but that was not your argument.  You claimed this site has moved further to the right (as in the posters ideologies have moved to the right) and so far the only argument to support this is you saying  "if you can't see it I don't know what to tell you."  Thus why I said it was a weak and lazy argument.  I think most of the active political posters on this site have remained principled with their beliefs whether you like them or not.  

To me, like you said, this site (and also the old Huddle) were always right-leaning. Hell, I remember laughing my ass off in '08 on the old Huddle because of how many middle-aged and older dudes were rockin' those Palin avatars (with probably half or so not even including McCain) in what looked like a comical "our side's done got a MILF, so vote R!!!!!" kind of thing. I'd say the main difference now, other than how any left "opposition" is far more sporadic, is the over-the-top anti-progressive sentiment. Which mainly comes from a handful of people who (a) dedicate a legit amount of their time scouring the Internet for Stupid Progressive stories and (b) seemingly treat random opinions by some nobody as equally noteworthy or important as something that an actual progressive politician whose opinions could actually have a say in policy says or does.

posted by gut

LOL, you seem to be taking on the roll of Sleeper....does this mean you will be leaving us soon?

You can't be that dense to disagree with what I said about Libertarian and classic liberalism....you just be like "derp....right winger", which is a classic libtard response.  Maybe you were Sleeper all this time?

Maybe you were too young to notice, but about 20 years ago Democrats wanted to do away with labels and instead focused on the individual and uniqueness, wanting to eliminate the entire concept of gender, for example.  They were much more about tolerance, as opposed to today's goals of forced accomodation.  So, yes, 20 years ago that party was very much more classic liberalism....but have today moved much further left.

That's all for today's lesson.

To paraphrase Nancy Pelosi of all people dunking on AOC - at the end of the day the loud and shrill identity politics obsessed left is a small element of the Democratic party but every example is trumpeted loudly in conservative media and conservative social media as an example of the crazy left. But, you obsess over them - far left freaks with no political power talking about eliminating gender in magazines nobody reads and twitter trolls - instead of "Republicans" like Trump who is the President and is enacting all of the socialist fiscal and budget policy on steroids that you posted about incessantly while Obummer was in charge.

posted by gut

Ehhh, it's a true [socially] liberal position, that now appears right leaning because the left has gone batshit over identity politics.  And then on fiscal, it's a traditionally conservative position.

I feel like the left reflexively labels libertarians as right-wingers, mainly because everyone that disagrees with them gets labeled right-winger in order to dismiss them.

More broadly, if you are for smaller govt, especially federal - which aligns both socially and fiscally for libertarians - then you are considered at least right-leaning according to the modern big-Fed Democratic party.  The irony is the Repubs aren't really any less big-Fed than Democrats.

What I think S&L is getting at, I think, is that the majority of people inclined to libertarianism - say, being for legalizing drugs (something Democrats tend to support more) and lower income taxes (something Republicans tend to support more) generally seem to vote Republican more than Democrat when they're playing the two party game and, at least on this board in particular, spend an inordinate amount of political discussion on "tHe lEFT" - e.g. multiple threads on disgust with progressives. 

So while on the one hand you have the true Capital L Libertarians like Justin and O-Trap who will not abide either party -  you have the lower case l libertarians who'd probably prefer a robust libertarian party but vote R 99% of the time because by golly - while the GOP may be a complete fraud doing everything fiscally they railed on Obama about and be totally cool with infringing on property rights on social issues - goddamn those libz!

It's a phenomenon on the right - people who vote down ticket Republican and then say "I'm not a Republican though, I'm a libertarian!"

It'd be like me saying I'm not a Democrat even though I vote Democrat every time despite my hope that I could vote for an MMT-Party that wants to cut payroll taxes and sell securities to fund a Green New Deal. There are elements of the Democratic party that embarrass me and that I don't support but the reality is, in our political spectrum, I'm still a Democrat and a left-winger despite what I might want to call myself or vote for in a perfect world. 

posted by like_that

Libertarians are more stay the fuck out of my business and I will stay out of yours as long as there is no harm being done.  You apply this for example whether you like/dislike or agree/disagree with the entire LGBTQ community. The main arguments for libertarianism are property rights, autonomy, limited government, and fiscal conservatism.  That's all inherently right leaning. This is why you see senators and represenatives with liberarian leanins in the GOP.  I can't think of any dem you would identify with libertarian leanings. 

Obviously Richard Cordray /s

I'm small-l libertarian as I find the national party to be a complete shit-show.