The Russia/Ukraine situation

Sounds like the Russians may have fired rockets in their own territory, at villages, so they can blame Ukraine.

posted by gut

LOL, no just no.  You realize the planet has been getting greener?  You do realize that crops are plants that eat CO2?

Also, CO2 concentrations are partly a function of plants.  Optimal CO2 doesn't become lower because you have less plants, but rather fewer plants means less absorbtion of emissions.

800 ppm is estimated optimal for plant life, which means it's optimal for animals given plants are the foundation of the food chain.  Above 800ppm there are diminishing margins of return, though not necessarily negative.  In the dinosaur era, life flourished between 1000-2000 ppm.

250ppm puts us much, much closer to extinction than 800ppm.

your argument is wrong. the CO2 consumption you're arguing for is for fully mature plants (.12kg/hr/100m2) what do we do with mature plants that we consider crops? we harvest (i.e. kill them) since 97% of our old growth forest on this continent have been cleared for crops, we will never get to that CO2 consumption again without severe famine. since that's not on the table, we need to aim for 300ppm to do what we need to do.  while limiting/eliminating global temp rises.

and for the argument that algae needs the CO2 to grow and keep things in check how do we feel every june when the west coast of florida becomes a mass fish kill zone? 

posted by BR1986FB

Sounds like the Russians may have fired rockets in their own territory, at villages, so they can blame Ukraine.

dang. bold move but when you have total control of the populace why not.

posted by BR1986FB

Sounds like the Russians may have fired rockets in their own territory, at villages, so they can blame Ukraine.

Hitler would be proud.

posted by j_crazy

your argument is wrong. the CO2 consumption you're arguing for is for fully mature plants (.12kg/hr/100m2) what do we do with mature plants that we consider crops? we harvest (i.e. kill them) since 97% of our old growth forest on this continent have been cleared for crops, we will never get to that CO2 consumption again without severe famine. since that's not on the table, we need to aim for 300ppm to do what we need to do.  while limiting/eliminating global temp rises.

and for the argument that algae needs the CO2 to grow and keep things in check how do we feel every june when the west coast of florida becomes a mass fish kill zone? 

So, so much stupid in that post.  Plants thrive at 800ppm.  A quick google search will show that.  Similar to people thriving at oxygen levels at sea level, but at the top of Everest where the air is much thinner you start to suffocate.

You're confusing concentration with consumption.  Very different arguments.  What you are confusing yourself attempting to argue is carbon cycle balance.  CO2 is increasing, so clearly there aren't enough plants & algae to offset the increase supplied by humans.  But that doesn't change the fact that plants much, much much prefer 800ppm over 250ppm.  That is plainly evident in the overall greening of the plant in recent decades.

How long before Lindsey Graham gets one of Putin's Chernobyl salads?

No doubt.  Gotta wonder what would happen if somebody  took Putin out. 

posted by QuakerOats

No doubt.  Gotta wonder what would happen if somebody  took Putin out. 

Knowing the way Russia works, the new leader could be more deranged than Putin.  

posted by majorspark

How long before Lindsey Graham gets one of Putin's Chernobyl salads?

America can only hope!

posted by QuakerOats

No doubt.  Gotta wonder what would happen if somebody  took Putin out. 

You know that is illegal under international law right?

Also, be careful, because what's to stop some general from taking that as a direct assault from the US and launching nuclear weapons at us? 

Are willing to take out Putin if it means a city is taken out? 

There is a reason there are different rules for nuclear weapon states. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Knowing the way Russia works, the new leader could be more deranged than Putin.  

Would this shock anyone? But I'd think they'd want someone a bit more moderate, not as old school/hardcore.

If Putin's going to be taken out it's going to be from within, someone closer to him. Can't see a revolt or someone from outside the country (i.e. US) accomplishing it.

posted by BR1986FB

Would this shock anyone? But I'd think they'd want someone a bit more moderate, not as old school/hardcore.

If Putin's going to be taken out it's going to be from within, someone closer to him. Can't see a revolt or someone from outside the country (i.e. US) accomplishing it.

That's a worst case scenario. Do you really want a coup that may leave Russia's nuclear stockpile up for grabs? 

You all really need to go back and dig into the fall of the Soviet Union and how the world freaked out because we had no idea who was in charge of the nukes. 

Hell, it was even plot of movies in the 90s...see Crimson Tide. 

posted by BR1986FB

Would this shock anyone? But I'd think they'd want someone a bit more moderate, not as old school/hardcore.

If Putin's going to be taken out it's going to be from within, someone closer to him. Can't see a revolt or someone from outside the country (i.e. US) accomplishing it.

Yesterday or the day before, I saw a random headline stating that one of the Russian oligarchs put a $1M bounty on Putin.

After reading that, I thought that if, hypothetically, I was a Bond movie caliber hitman-type who'd be up for that sort of thing, my response would be along the lines of, "That's all? For Putin? Lol, add a couple zeros to that bounty and I'll take it under consideration."

I wonder what would happen if we deployed a deadly nerve agent in a Russian town in an assassination attempt that ended up killing a Russian citizen. 

posted by majorspark

I wonder what would happen if we deployed a deadly nerve agent in a Russian town in an assassination attempt that ended up killing a Russian citizen. 

Considering if we should have one,  it would violate the Biological Weapons Convention of which we are a member, we would get a ton of international outcry. 

Probably get a shit ton of blowback from NATO too. 

Russia is getting flak for cluster bombs and targeting nuclear power plants, rightly so. 

posted by Heretic

"That's all? For Putin? Lol, add a couple zeros to that bounty and I'll take it under consideration."

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You know that is illegal under international law right?

Also, be careful, because what's to stop some general from taking that as a direct assault from the US and launching nuclear weapons at us? 

Are willing to take out Putin if it means a city is taken out? 

There is a reason there are different rules for nuclear weapon states. 

Couldn't give a fiddler's fuck about the first sentence, but the rest are valid concerns.

posted by queencitybuckeye

Couldn't give a fiddler's fuck about the first sentence, but the rest are valid concerns.

If the US doesn't follow international law and rules, why should Russia or China then? 

Maybe a coup doesn't look so bad after Putin threatens to use nukes?

Not saying that's a credible threat, but when you start turning the screws [and they haven't REALLY, not yet] on the oligarchs I don't think the expectation is that they're going to say "Vlad, please stop" and he listens.