Poll: Measles Outbreaks/Vaccination Discussion

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  • Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:25 AM
    posted by justincredible

    I was one of the idiots that voted no. I'm not anti-vaxx, and like others believe that if you don't vaccinate you're likely an idiot. But that doesn't mean I have to agree that government force is the only, or right, answer.

    you're obviously entitled to your opinion like everyone else here, but what is the 'right' answer? anti-vaxx'rs decisions affect the lives of our children and grandchildren, so if forcing these people to vaccinate their kids isn't the answer, what is?

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:26 AM
    posted by justincredible

    ... But that doesn't mean I have to agree that government force is the only, or right, answer.

    But the thing is, eventually people would challenge schools, hospitals, etc requiring immunization.  They are public places and services, and if you have no law requiring vaccination then I think it's unlikely they could continue to deny access.

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:31 AM
    posted by vball10set

    you're obviously entitled to your opinion like everyone else here, but what is the 'right' answer? anti-vaxx'rs decisions affect the lives of our children and grandchildren, so if forcing these people to vaccinate their kids isn't the answer, what is?

    I don't know. I didn't say I had the answer.

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:42 AM

    This is actually one of the times I think government intervention IS needed. Make it mandatory. It can wipe out a disease from existence, why wouldn’t you want that implemented by our government? 

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:49 AM
    posted by SportsAndLady

    This is actually one of the times I think government intervention IS needed. Make it mandatory. It can wipe out a disease from existence, why wouldn’t you want that implemented by our government? 

    Although, now that I think about it, there may be a precedent about the govt trying to tell people what they can do with their bodies....

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:52 AM
    posted by SportsAndLady

    This is actually one of the times I think government intervention IS needed. Make it mandatory. It can wipe out a disease from existence, why wouldn’t you want that implemented by our government? 

    Thinking about this more, I think States should mandate it themselves. If California or NY wants to let these freaks run around so be it, but I don't think the Federal government should mandate it. I did vote YES on the poll though. 

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 11:54 AM

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:02 PM
    posted by iclfan2

    Thinking about this more, I think States should mandate it themselves. If California or NY wants to let these freaks run around so be it, but I don't think the Federal government should mandate it. I did vote YES on the poll though. 

    Yeah, federal, state doesn’t matter to me. I’m not sure logistically how to get it done, but it’s crazy to me that 500 people in April of 2019 have been hit with a measles diagnosis when this can simply be eradicated with a vaccine. 

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:02 PM
    posted by SportsAndLady

    This is actually one of the times I think government intervention IS needed. Make it mandatory. It can wipe out a disease from existence, why wouldn’t you want that implemented by our government? 

    Are we sure this is the case? What if you travel abroad to a country that doesn't have forced vaccinations? Or someone from abroad comes here and has been exposed to the disease? I can't imagine we're the only country that doesn't require it.

    I don't know the answer to these questions, I'm truly curious.

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:04 PM

    Second hand smoke is harmful to people not smoking.  Bud we haven't banned smoking.  We've just made it so the people who don't care about the harms can't harm other people by smoking indoors.  It's not the answer, but it's an example.

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:05 PM
    posted by justincredible

    Are we sure this is the case? What if you travel abroad to a country that doesn't have forced vaccinations? Or someone from abroad comes here and has been exposed to the disease? I can't imagine we're the only country that doesn't require it.

    I don't know the answer to these questions, I'm truly curious.

    I’m just going off of statistics that show less than 65 people had it in 2000, so the FDC considers that “eliminated”

    im sure you can still get it somehow. So I guess I shouldn’t say completely wiped out. 

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:08 PM

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:09 PM
    posted by justincredible

    Are we sure this is the case? What if you travel abroad to a country that doesn't have forced vaccinations? Or someone from abroad comes here and has been exposed to the disease? I can't imagine we're the only country that doesn't require it.

    I don't know the answer to these questions, I'm truly curious.

     

     

    You a politard or something?    

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:13 PM
    posted by QuakerOats

     

     

    You a politard or something?    


    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:43 PM

    I believe that vacinations are a good thing, however i do not believe that the government should mandate them. Where do you draw the line and who makes these decisions? If you believe that all people shouls be vacinated for the "good of the people", How could you say that healthcare for all is wrong and that the government should not have to pay for thier own requirements?

    What the hell is more intrusive in a persons life that says you must let someone inject something in your body as a requirement for you to enjoy your rights as a citizen?

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 12:45 PM
    posted by QuakerOats

    How much of this outbreak, along with other potential health crisis, are due to the ‘open’ border?

     

    Someone's turning grasping at straws into an art form!

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 1:57 PM

     

    So much data and information ….

     

     “Data reported to the National Tuberculosis Surveillance System show the TB incidence among foreign-born people in the United States (15.1 cases per 100,000) is approximately 13 times the incidence among U.S.-born people (1.2 cases per 100,000).”

    Whereas TB prevalence among legal immigrants in America is 15.1 cases per 100,000, which is high enough, the prevalence of TB among Guatemalans is 106 per 100,000 people, according to the CDC. In other words, Guatemalans are 83 times more likely to have TB than Americans and 7 times more likely than legal immigrants.

    Obviously, we have our own problem with a small minority of people who don’t want to get vaccinated, but ultimately these new outbreaks, such as the recent measles outbreak, are originating from other countries. Certainly, even if we didn’t have illegal immigration, there’s always a risk of bringing in diseases from the cross-border travel of Americans. However, there is no denying that the 800-pound gorilla in the room is the fact that millions of illegals have come over the border this generation from very risk-prone countries without ever being screened in detention facilities because they were never apprehended. “

     

    https://www.conservativereview.com/news/illegal-immigration-isnt-just-a-security-issue-its-a-public-health-crisis-in-the-making/

    http://fairus.org/issue/societal-impact/could-uncontrolled-immigration-expose-us-public-health-crisis

    [10] Soeren Kern, “Germany: Migration Crisis Becomes Public Health Crisis,” Gatestone Institute, November 8, 2015, https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6838/germany-migration-health-crisis

    [11] Judicial Watch, “Illegal Alien Minors Spreading TB, Dengue, Swine Flu,” July 8, 2014, http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2014/07/illegal-alien-minors-spreading-tb-ebola-dengue-swine-flu/

    [12] Neil Munro, “Obama’s Border Policy Fueled Epidemic, Evidence Shows,” The Daily Caller, October 31, 2014, http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/31/obamas-border-policy-fueled-epidemic-evidence-shows/

    [7] Soeren Kern, “Germany: Infectious Diseases Spreading as Migrants Settle In,” Gatestone Institute, July 14, 2017, https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10676/germany-migrants-infectious

    [3] B.D. Gushulak, J. Weekers and D.W. MacPherson, “Migrants and Emerging Public Health Issues in a Globalized World: Threats, Risks and Challenges, an Evidence-Based Framework,” Emerging Health Threats, March 31, 2010, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3167650/

    [1] Rick Oltman, “Importing Diseases – Mass Immigration Endangers Our National Well-Being,” The Social Contract, Winter 2017, http://www.thesocialcontract.com/artman2/publish/tsc_27_2/tsc-27-2-oltman.shtml

     

    Good luck

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 2:19 PM
    posted by justincredible

    I was one of the idiots that voted no. I'm not anti-vaxx, and like others believe that if you don't vaccinate you're likely an idiot. But that doesn't mean I have to agree that government force is the only, or right, answer.

    More or less this.

    I AM, however, open to the idea that parents who don't get their children vaccinated, and that results in an injury or death, they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
     

    posted by SportsAndLady

    This is actually one of the times I think government intervention IS needed. Make it mandatory. It can wipe out a disease from existence, why wouldn’t you want that implemented by our government? 

    Two reasons:

    1. I doubt trust your average politician to give a shit enough to actually ensure it's done well without creating victims.

    2. I doubt government competency in general.

    If it's a good idea, and it's genuinely effective, government enforcement shouldn't be necessary.  Let the nutballs continue making themselves more susceptible.  They'll weed themselves out.

    And if there's a case of people who are unable to be vaccinated for health reasons contracting a vaccine-preventable diseases, prosecute those around them who are unvaccinated and have been carrying the disease around them.

     

    Wed, Apr 10, 2019 2:24 PM


     

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