RedRider1;1339790 wrote:....Talent matters, especially in high school sports. How many Red Rider teams in the 80 & 90's won games on talent & little else? Too many to count. Yet somehow now talent doesn't matter & it's all on coaching? Doesn't jive with me...sorry.

When does the coaching matter?

As football season progressed, and so too the losing season, many of you began to lay blame on the "kids" and their lack of pride, commitment, poor work ethic during the season, poor work ethic during the off-season, or their care for rtr!

As many of you champion the coaches, be mindful that a "good" coach should also be able to inspire the players to have pride, commitment, a strong work ethic during the season, during the off-season. If such is lacking in a "tradition-rich" program such as Orrville, then you tell me, who was/is responsible? You all say that some of the "kids" come to the weight room and sign in, sign out, and little to no work-out is performed, should it not be the responsibility of the coach to make working out mandatory. Isn't it the the coaches responsibility to have one or two assistant coaches monitor the weight room activity, progress and weight-lifting regimes the "kids" are utilizing. If the "kids" don't do these things, why are they on the field?

You're putting all the responsibility on the "kids", then you say they are "kids", who aren't responsible because they "are kids", and the coaches are there to teach, to mentor, to encourage, to discipline!

Yes, talent has a lot to do with it, so too does coaching!

Series62;1340413 wrote:As football season progressed, and so too the losing season, many of you began to lay blame on the "kids" and their lack of pride, commitment, poor work ethic during the season, poor work ethic during the off-season, or their care for rtr!

As many of you champion the coaches, be mindful that a "good" coach should also be able to inspire the players to have pride, commitment, a strong work ethic during the season, during the off-season. If such is lacking in a "tradition-rich" program such as Orrville, then you tell me, who was/is responsible? You all say that some of the "kids" come to the weight room and sign in, sign out, and little to no work-out is performed, should it not be the responsibility of the coach to make working out mandatory. Isn't it the the coaches responsibility to have one or two assistant coaches monitor the weight room activity, progress and weight-lifting regimes the "kids" are utilizing. If the "kids" don't do these things, why are they on the field?

You're putting all the responsibility on the "kids", then you say they are "kids", who aren't responsible because they "are kids", and the coaches are there to teach, to mentor, to encourage, to discipline!

Yes, talent has a lot to do with it, so too does coaching!

At least this is an area where there can be some discussion. I believe that the weight room should be controlled by the players. They need to hold each other accountable and the leaders make sure everyone is working the way the should. There was hell to pay if guys were not doing the work in my days. Old Rider knows what I am talking about. That is not a talent question that is a heart question.

It should be controlled by coaches with "true team leaders" assisting. Who's going to hold the players responsible?

Series62;1340603 wrote:It should be controlled by coaches with "true team leaders" assisting. Who's going to hold the players responsible?

You are "responsible" to each other you won't miss a work out because the rest of the team is counting on you. They are doing the work you don't want to be the one that is not doing the work. Captains should be elected prior to school being out so they can help drive this. The Coaches are involved but when the athletes hold each other accountable it shows up on Friday Nights.

That may have been the case when you were in high school. But, based upon previous conversations this season, how successful have your captains been thus far in accountability this year? I think the captains might need to taught leadership by the leadership before they are given the task to lead.

Being good in athletics and/or academia does not make you a good leader. By that same criteria, one would think that since you are the head coach and on the coaching staff, you are a good leader, but is that really the case?

But...since you are the head coach, then you should set an example by and thru your staff for the players to follow. Is that being done? By the conversation I've read, I'd say NO!

Now this is interesting to discuss, how would the parents of these kids handle a coach in a kids face challenging him to do what is needed to become better? My guess is a meeting with the AD, Principal and the coach.... IDK? I feel confident in saying that coaches like Smitty probably couldn't keep a coaching job in todays PC world, he bit me head butted me and threatened to kick my A*% in the locker room more than one time. And I mean threw his sport coat off and got in my face..... He was challenging me to be better, and I get it! Kids today...... I'm just not so sure? Now I am not saying that coaching of that style is right or wrong or even needed in this case or discussion I am just saying it seems the overall expectations we, the community and parents have for our young people just isn't the same. When I was in school and a coach or teacher came down on me my father NEVER questioned the coach, teacher or staff, he simply whipped my but and told me to do what I was told. I think coaches today have to be more mindful of consquences today then in the past? Maybe thats good? IDK, but interesting to discuss....

sanitizer;1341774 wrote:Now this is interesting to discuss, how would the parents of these kids handle a coach in a kids face challenging him to do what is needed to become better? My guess is a meeting with the AD, Principal and the coach.... IDK? I feel confident in saying that coaches like Smitty probably couldn't keep a coaching job in todays PC world, he bit me head butted me and threatened to kick my A*% in the locker room more than one time. And I mean threw his sport coat off and got in my face..... He was challenging me to be better, and I get it! Kids today...... I'm just not so sure? Now I am not saying that coaching of that style is right or wrong or even needed in this case or discussion I am just saying it seems the overall expectations we, the community and parents have for our young people just isn't the same. When I was in school and a coach or teacher came down on me my father NEVER questioned the coach, teacher or staff, he simply whipped my but and told me to do what I was told. I think coaches today have to be more mindful of consquences today then in the past? Maybe thats good? IDK, but interesting to discuss....

Parents today are soft and make the kids soft. I could hear Series now if a coach did that. I have no problem with it.

rrfan;1340999 wrote:You are "responsible" to each other you won't miss a work out because the rest of the team is counting on you. They are doing the work you don't want to be the one that is not doing the work. Captains should be elected prior to school being out so they can help drive this. The Coaches are involved but when the athletes hold each other accountable it shows up on Friday Nights.

Did the performance of this team reflect to you that;
a-some "work outs" were missed
b-someone wasn't responsible to their team
c-someone didn't "hold their teammate responsible"
d-more than one someone obviously didn't do the work
e-the captains didn't "drive" this work ethic

And if by the performance of the team it is reflected that these things transpired...where were the coaches while it was happening?

Shouldn't the coaches who are the "supposed" leaders, who are "involved", be responsible for teaching the captains how to lead, and step up to oversee the actual leadership of the captains?

So, are you saying that what was exhibited on Friday nights this past season, was indicative of only the "athletes" not doing their job?

rrfan;1341959 wrote:Parents today are soft and make the kids soft. I could hear Series now if a coach did that. I have no problem with it.

Could you really?

Series62;1342603 wrote:Could you really?

Sure can!

rrfan;1342609 wrote:Sure can!

Yourself and rr1 have this tendency to say that I've said or did something that I haven't said or done. If I've said or did anything related to sanitizers post, find it and post it or prove it!

Series62;1342601 wrote:Did the performance of this team reflect to you that;
a-some "work outs" were missed
b-someone wasn't responsible to their team
c-someone didn't "hold their teammate responsible"
d-more than one someone obviously didn't do the work
e-the captains didn't "drive" this work ethic

And if by the performance of the team it is reflected that these things transpired...where were the coaches while it was happening?

Shouldn't the coaches who are the "supposed" leaders, who are "involved", be responsible for teaching the captains how to lead, and step up to oversee the actual leadership of the captains?

So, are you saying that what was exhibited on Friday nights this past season, was indicative of only the "athletes" not doing their job?

Don't try to paint me in to a corner! You want me to say it was only the athletes fault. You and I know it is always a combination of many things. Talent, Work, Coaching, Health, Luck...but the bottome line is the work was not done by the athletes.

Also, if you need to teach a captain how to lead you need new captains!

rrfan;1342624 wrote:Don't try to paint me in to a corner! You want me to say it was only the athletes fault. You and I know it is always a combination of many things. Talent, Work, Coaching, Health, Luck...but the bottome line is the work was not done by the athletes.

Also, if you need to teach a captain how to lead you need new captains!

Paint you in a corner? You've done that yourself by what you said in your effort to alleviate the coaches of any responsibility.

If the "work wasn't done by the athletes", who's responsible for that?

If you don't teach the captain how to lead, how does he learn how to lead?

I honestly almost forgot what thread we were on!!! LOL! I just want to say for the record I was not pointing fingers at anyone just raising a point that I thought would be interesting to discuss in a general way. Being that I am a little removed from the scene of Orrville I just wondered what the thoughts of those of you there were and are? I just know that it has been my experience that when I hear parents talking about their kids in school, sports or any arena really they sure seem to have a lot of excuses on hand about why their child was in trouble or isn't playing.... I am NOT POINTING any fingers at anyone, heck I don't know anyone on this site anyways (well 3 people). I just wonder if my parents sounded like that defending me when I did something stupid? I really don't see it but who knows... I think most leaders are Born but have seen some made? Any coach at a school like Orrville is going to have to take the good with the bad

sanitizer;1342724 wrote:...I just wonder if my parents sounded like that defending me when I did something stupid? I really don't see it but who knows... I think most leaders are Born but have seen some made? Any coach at a school like Orrville is going to have to take the good with the bad

You, rrfan and rr1 keep posting this stuff, but what parent on this site wrote a comment on here about complaining to Davault or any coach about their childs playing time? If you know of someone, write them.

Were any of the present captains "born leaders"?

Series62 -

You, rrfan and rr1 keep posting this stuff, but what parent on this site wrote a comment on here about complaining to Davault or any coach about their childs playing time? If you know of someone, write them.

I repeat.....

I just want to say for the record I was not pointing fingers at anyone just raising a point that I thought would be interesting to discuss in a general way. Being that I am a little removed from the scene of Orrville I just wondered what the thoughts of those of you there were and are? I just know that it has been my experience that when I hear parents talking about their kids in school, sports or any arena really they sure seem to have a lot of excuses on hand about why their child was in trouble or isn't playing.... I am NOT POINTING any fingers at anyone,

My statement was in general, I am not an Orrville resident. In my travels PERIOD, I just seem to hear a lot of that "kind" of talk from some parents. I am not pointing at anyone on this sight or in particular because I simply don't know, just thought it would be worthy of discussion that is all. Sorry if I hit a nerve or offended. That is not my intention EVER. I just thought that the take on what the people from my home town thought and saw would be interesting? Nothing more nothing less.

sanitizer;1343021 wrote:Series62 -

I repeat.....



My statement was in general, I am not an Orrville resident. In my travels PERIOD, I just seem to hear a lot of that "kind" of talk from some parents. I am not pointing at anyone on this sight or in particular because I simply don't know, just thought it would be worthy of discussion that is all. Sorry if I hit a nerve or offended. That is not my intention EVER. I just thought that the take on what the people from my home town thought and saw would be interesting? Nothing more nothing less.

You didn't hit a nerve with me. That post is so similar to what rrfan and rr1 are saying on the football thread in an attempt to accuse, although wrongfully!

Same old , same old!

Have not really read up on the three of you and the history. No disrespect.

Hopefully the Riders right the ship tonight against Wooster. They played a good first half against Smithville their last game and just need to put together a whole game. I heard Sly brought some kids in from the State runnerup team to scrimmage with the current squad this week. Hope that helps..Good Luck Riders

Riderfan;1348582 wrote:Hopefully the Riders right the ship tonight against Wooster. They played a good first half against Smithville their last game and just need to put together a whole game. I heard Sly brought some kids in from the State runnerup team to scrimmage with the current squad this week. Hope that helps..Good Luck Riders

Can we put a uniform on any of them for the game?

rrfan;1348650 wrote:Can we put a uniform on any of them for the game?

We need more than that. Not much PURE basketball talent on this team. Hard to win games that way. Come to think of it...this group of football/basketball players haven't won a game since school started...OUCH!

Need to have someone go to the hoop and look to score! Trevor seems to be the only one willing to look at the basket and nobody attacks the basket, but then our weak foul shooting would rear it's ugly head. This is truly one of the least talented teams in my 30 plus years of watching Red Riders basketball.

The Riders may be w/o Summers sometime after the first of the year. If he needs shoulder surgery due to a football injury this past fall I am sure he will have the surgery now so that he is ready come 2013 football season! That takes Orrvilles only threat out of the line-up...OUCH!