believer;1223850 wrote:and away from the party of Pelosi, Frank, Schumer, Waters, Gore, Boxer, Rangel, and a host of other Democrat nut jobs.

gosh a ruddies reps even have allen west that about trumps anyone, oh thats right trump is a republican.

Quite frankly Wedge, Allen West is not my hero....I'm much too moderate, sweet and sensitive to call flaming socialists communists. Even though they share alot of common ground there is a difference, and using the "C" word evokes such emotions and negativism. West doesn't have my reservations...but from his perspective, he is not all that far off. The man is an unashamed conservative looking at people far across the political spectrum. If you have any knowledge of physics/optics, you know it is much easier to ascertain differences of position when things are close to you. But with distant objects, you just don't have the depth of field....things look the same. This is common right here on this cite...all the liberatarians out on their wing looking back towards the center, have a hard time ascertaining a difference between the moderate Romney, and the decidely liberal Obama. No different then West....he out on the right wing looking at the guys on the left and he doesn't see much of a difference between 'progressives' (euphemism for socialist) and communists.

In any case, this thread isn't about Allen West per se...it's about his challenge to the orthodoxy of white liberal thinking and their hysterical reaction to their elitist, know it all, policies of social engineering and black/white relations being questioned. Frankly, I think West is dead on....at least with this.

You have a better chance of being hit by lightning than discovering an incident of polling place fraud.”

...and again, if you didn't get it the first time, "discovering an incident of voter fraud" would only be the incidents that got caught. Who knows how many got away with it.....who knows how many voters were really disenfranchised.

HitsRus;1223907 wrote:Quite frankly Wedge, Allen West is not my hero....I'm much too moderate, sweet and sensitive to call flaming socialists communists. Even though they share alot of common ground there is a difference, and using the "C" word evokes such emotions and negativism. West doesn't have my reservations...but from his perspective, he is not all that far off. The man is an unashamed conservative looking at people far across the political spectrum. If you have any knowledge of physics/optics, you know it is much easier to ascertain differences of position when things are close to you. But with distant objects, you just don't have the depth of field....things look the same. This is common right here on this cite...all the liberatarians out on their wing looking back towards the center, have a hard time ascertaining a difference between the moderate Romney, and the decidely liberal Obama. No different then West....he out on the right wing looking at the guys on the left and he doesn't see much of a difference between 'progressives' (euphemism for socialist) and communists.

In any case, this thread isn't about Allen West per se...it's about his challenge to the orthodoxy of white liberal thinking and their hysterical reaction to their elitist, know it all, policies of social engineering and black/white relations being questioned. Frankly, I think West is dead on....at least with this.

Allen West and your view has been overwhelmingly rejected by the black community. And historically progressive does not equal socialist.

HitsRus;1223911 wrote:...and again, if you didn't get it the first time, "discovering an incident of voter fraud" would only be the incidents that got caught. Who knows how many got away with it.....who knows how many voters were really disenfranchised.

gosh a ruddies the numbers are there but you selfservingly refuse to see them,just as the klaners in the South used to argue that literacy tests would not keep qualified voters from voting.
Gosh lets see how it works vs hispanics in Texas, justice department lawyers found
"e conclude that the total number of registered voters who lack a driver's license or personal identification card issued by DPS could range from 603,892 to 795,955. The disparity between the percentages of Hispanics and non-Hispanics who lack these forms of identification ranges from 46.5 to 120.0 percent. That is, according to the state's own data, a Hispanic registered voter is at least 46.5 percent, and potentially 120.0 percent, more likely than a non-Hispanic registered voter to lack this identification. Even using the data most favorable to the state, Hispanics disproportionately lack either a driver's license or a personal identification card issued by DPS, and that disparity is statistically significant."
"Texas has no driver's license offices in almost a third of the state's counties. Meanwhile, close to 15 percent of Hispanic Texans living in counties without driver's license offices don't have ID. A little less than a quarter of driver's license offices have extended hours, which would make it tough for many working voters to find a place and time to acquire the IDs. Despite this, the Texas legislature struck an amendment that would have reimbursed low-income voters for travel expenses when going to apply for a voter ID, and killed another that would have required offices to remain open until 7:00 p.m. or later on just one weekday, and four or more hours at least two weekends".

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/03/how-voter-id-laws-are-being-used-to-disenfranchise-minorities-and-the-poor/254572/

queencitybuckeye;1223399 wrote:The idea that none of it is true is as incorrect as claiming that all of it is true, or is the whole truth.

I will concede this point but most experts do not seem to think that big bad gubmint "forcing" banks make bad loans under things like the CRA was a major culprit. No doubt there is truth to what you say here but I'm trying to make the point very clear to the Believer's and QuakerOats of the world that the financial/mortgage crisis was simply a case of gubmint run amok is incorrect.

As far as the Voter ID thing goes I wish Republicans would just admit that their worries about fraud are just a cover for trying to help prevent reliably liberal voters from voting. A congressmen from Pennsylvania gave away the game indicating that the Voter ID laws would help Romney get Pennsylvania. Then, you have states like Texas allowing people to vote if they show a Hunting License but not if they show a student ID. Why? Not to prevent voter fraud but because Hunter's vote Republican and Student's vote Democrat.

If this was seriously about fraud and more diligent efforts were being made to ensure it didn't cause disenfranchisement I'd be on board but this is seriously all a ruse.

Just come out and admit that this election is so important to get Barack Hussein Obama out of office so he doesn't destroy America that you're willing to live with yourself if some po' liberals don't vote cus they're just leeching off the productive anyway, don't know anybody and have had their votes bought off by the Dems who want to redistribute wealth to them.

Does anyone doubt that if QuakerOats had to choose between disenfranchising a couple libs to ensure the master of unemployment was out of office he wouldn't do so? The whole Republican establishment acts just like him.

BoatShoes;1224447 wrote:I will concede this point but most experts do not seem to think that big bad gubmint "forcing" banks make bad loans under things like the CRA was a major culprit. No doubt there is truth to what you say here but I'm trying to make the point very clear to the Believer's and QuakerOats of the world that the financial/mortgage crisis was simply a case of gubmint run amok is incorrect.

At best, they fiddled while Rome burned. At worst, they supplied some of the matches.

BoatShoes;1224454 wrote:As far as the Voter ID thing goes I wish Republicans would just admit that their worries about fraud are just a cover for trying to help prevent reliably liberal voters from voting.

Hey, as of late, I've been just as critical of Republican candidates as I have been of Democrat candidates, but I still think an ID should be mandatory, and given the ease with which a person can obtain one, I don't see why anyone is pushing so hard against it.

Granted, there may be people who fight for voting being contingent on an ID card for the reasons you say, but one could just as easily say that there are Democrats who oppose it just to make sure that people they can count on to vote in their favor will do so even if they don't get an ID. At worse, there may even be some who hope that such people will find a way to vote more than once, because the ends justify the means in their minds.

BoatShoes;1224454 wrote:If this was seriously about fraud and more diligent efforts were being made to ensure it didn't cause disenfranchisement I'd be on board but this is seriously all a ruse.

Why should a need for an ID ... something very easy to get as a citizen of the US ... cause disenfranchisement?

BoatShoes;1224454 wrote: Just come out and admit that this election is so important to get Barack Hussein Obama out of office so he doesn't destroy America that you're willing to live with yourself if some po' liberals don't vote cus they're just leeching off the productive anyway, don't know anybody and have had their votes bought off by the Dems who want to redistribute wealth to them.

I've said, numerous times, that I think a Romney presidency will be equally detrimental, so that's not it.

isadore;1223323 wrote:From the Brennan Center for Justice
"Studies show that as many as 11 percent of eligible voters do not have government-issued photo ID.

Hey mods:

Is this a legal way to get around the "must link to the study rule"? Cause if so, I'll just start citing my grandfather in a bar that told me of a study.

I realize it is a lot to expect that you would actually check out the Brennan site where the statement was from, it was listed. And then actually check their sources which are cited, Here is the list of citations which you could have found if you checked out the page.
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/research_on_voter_id/
Gosh a rudddies it is nice to see you back. You were gone for quite awhile after you made this statement
5/3/12 184# Obama campaign thread

altor wrote: I'll guarantee you can't find a post by me on this board where I've called Obama a socialist. This is only my 60th post. It shouldn't be hard to sort through them.

And I find this

altor wrote: Of course! I should have known that Obama's European socialist views were Bush’s fault.

Thread “Disgusted with the Obama Administration 9/19/2011 4:49 PM
and then you went away.

isadore;1223714 wrote:Yes I believe it. Mr. Turzai let the cat out of the bag. We had grandfather clauses, literacy tests and poll taxes used in the past to deprive blacks of their franchise. Now we have voter id.

LOL, comparing literacy tests and poll taxes to requiring someone to have an id to vote. Laughable. Nothing is stopping people from getting a id. Me thinks that if someone is too lazy to even get an id (that many states will provide for free if someone faces financial hardship) then they definitely wouldn't vote anyhow.

dwccrew;1224869 wrote:LOL, comparing literacy tests and poll taxes to requiring someone to have an id to vote. Laughable. Nothing is stopping people from getting a id. Me thinks that if someone is too lazy to even get an id (that many states will provide for free if someone faces financial hardship) then they definitely wouldn't vote anyhow.

gosh a ruddies this is the kind of argument that racists in the south used to justify their exclusionary practices. geez they would say everyone goes to school so everybody should be literate so how can a literacy test be unfair. And wow, elections are expensive and all voters should contribute cover that cost. Just like the phony arguments used to justify voter IDs. As has been shown they deprive qualified voters of suffrage, especially the blacks, hispanics, students, elderly and the poor.

isadore;1224910 wrote:gosh a ruddies this is the kind of argument that racists in the south used to justify their exclusionary practices. geez they would say everyone goes to school so everybody should be literate so how can a literacy test be unfair. And wow, elections are expensive and all voters should contribute cover that cost. Just like the phony arguments used to justify voter IDs. As has been shown they deprive qualified voters of suffrage, especially the blacks, hispanics, students, elderly and the poor.

oh sleeper...

A great message from Philadelphia's Mayor - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XlP06nOPQ

isadore;1224910 wrote:gosh a ruddies this is the kind of argument that racists in the south used to justify their exclusionary practices. geez they would say everyone goes to school so everybody should be literate so how can a literacy test be unfair. And wow, elections are expensive and all voters should contribute cover that cost. Just like the phony arguments used to justify voter IDs. As has been shown they deprive qualified voters of suffrage, especially the blacks, hispanics, students, elderly and the poor.

Gosh a ruddies, this sounds like the kind of racist comments that liberals use today to hold minorities back and keep them from progressing in life.

As Allen West, an African-American, stated, the true racists are those that continually tell black people and other minorities that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves. People that share your ideology and continually hold minorities back.


This isn't 1930's America and people are not asking anyone to take tests, pay a tax, etc. They are simply asking that everyone be able to prove they are who they say they are when it comes to voting. Just like in every other facet of life in which we are required to provide ID to identify ourselves, we should be at the polls as well.

I wouldn't expect you to understand since you support failed policies that have done nothing but hold minorities back and kept them from bettering themselves for decades.....all put in to place by the racist Democratic party to try and convince minorities that they are there to help them when the reality is they keep them in poverty so that they can hold on to their power by keeping minorities dependant on the D's.

dwccrew;1225180 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, this sounds like the kind of racist comments that liberals use today to hold minorities back and keep them from progressing in life.

As Allen West, an African-American, stated, the true racists are those that continually tell black people and other minorities that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves. People that share your ideology and continually hold minorities back.


This isn't 1930's America and people are not asking anyone to take tests, pay a tax, etc. They are simply asking that everyone be able to prove they are who they say they are when it comes to voting. Just like in every other facet of life in which we are required to provide ID to identify ourselves, we should be at the polls as well.

I wouldn't expect you to understand since you support failed policies that have done nothing but hold minorities back and kept them from bettering themselves for decades.....all put in to place by the racist Democratic party to try and convince minorities that they are there to help them when the reality is they keep them in poverty so that they can hold on to their power by keeping minorities dependant on the D's.

Nice post. Reps

dwccrew;1225180 wrote:Gosh a ruddies, this sounds like the kind of racist comments that liberals use today to hold minorities back and keep them from progressing in life.

As Allen West, an African-American, stated, the true racists are those that continually tell black people and other minorities that they aren't capable of taking care of themselves. People that share your ideology and continually hold minorities back.


This isn't 1930's America and people are not asking anyone to take tests, pay a tax, etc. They are simply asking that everyone be able to prove they are who they say they are when it comes to voting. Just like in every other facet of life in which we are required to provide ID to identify ourselves, we should be at the polls as well.

I wouldn't expect you to understand since you support failed policies that have done nothing but hold minorities back and kept them from bettering themselves for decades.....all put in to place by the racist Democratic party to try and convince minorities that they are there to help them when the reality is they keep them in poverty so that they can hold on to their power by keeping minorities dependant on the D's.

I don’t know what upside down universe you live in, but in ours helping people to be enfranchised lifts them. What Congressman West is saying and doing is in opposition to the stated needs and wishes of the nearly unanimous black community. He is rejected by them.
Racist reactionaries have evolved their techniques to deprive blacks of their basic rights. They started with enslavement. When the forces of progress ended that they used Jim Crow Laws, literacy tests and the poll tax to take away blacks basic rights. When they were deprived of those tools in oppression, they switched to voter id. It is perfect for them because it can also be used against Hispanics, students, the elderly and the poor. Studies have shown the detrimental effect of voter id laws on all those groups

If disenfranchisement was such a huge problem, why did the SCOTUS rule in favor of Indiana's voter ID law and state...

"flagrant examples of (voter) fraud . . . have been documented throughout this Nation's history by respected historians and journalists" and "that not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election."

Surely any reasonable person would be concerned about maintaining the integrity of our election system....and that would be to insure that only living American citizens voted...and that they voted only once. Hence the need for an ID.

as you probably know...our goverment has been pretty good at mandating things lately....especially big entitlement programs that it says are for the good of everybody. Why not just mandate that everyone have a valid picture ID....and it could even mandate that they be free to low income, elderly, etc.


For the good of everyone...every US citizen should have an ID.

Laws try to muzzle voters
An election is intended to reflect the will of the people. Fair elections are the heart of a democracy.
But the integrity of our elections are threatened by new state laws requiring voters to present photo IDs before they cast their ballots. If the laws act as a barrier to some voters, they will erode our nation’s democratic principles.
In a speech Wednesday before the NAACP, presumptive Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney sidestepped the issue. But on Tuesday, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder called Texas’ new photo ID requirement a thinly disguised poll tax. Poll taxes, now prohibited by the 24th Amendment to the Constitution, were imposed by Southern states after the Civil War to discourage blacks from voting.
Holder sees a parallel between poll taxes and the new ID requirements. Only 8 percent of whites lack a photo ID, but 25 percent of African Americans don’t have them, he said.
“Many of those without IDs would have to travel great distances to get them — and some would struggle to pay for the documents they might need to obtain them,” he said.
Eleven states have passed new, Republican-backed voter ID rules in the past two years. No state offers a cost-free way to get them.
The Republicans’ motivations were spelled out clearly last month when Pennsylvania House majority leader Mike Turzai addressed the Republican State Committee about his party’s successes while in control of state government.
Among those accomplishments, he said, was: “Voter ID, which is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”
That’s because the estimated 750,000 Pennsylvania residents who don’t have photo IDs mostly are from groups that tend to vote Democratic.
Under Texas’ new law, now in court after the Justice Department blocked it, a license to carry a concealed weapon would be an acceptable form of ID, but a student ID would not.
Republicans say they just want to prevent vote fraud. But to justify laws that clearly would turn voters away from the polls, they need to document a real problem.
Last year, the Republican National Lawyers Association identified 400 election fraud prosecutions nationwide over a decade. That works out to less than one per state per year. And some of those cases involved falsified voter registrations, in which case an ID law wouldn’t have helped.
No system is perfect. But the traditional practice of requiring a signature under the eyes of election judges is preferable to turning away legitimate voters.
An election is a chance for the people to speak. Voter ID laws will muffle that voice.
http://www.suntimes.com/opinions/13716708-474/editorial-laws-try-to-muzzle-voters.html

The Republicans’ motivations were spelled out clearly last month when Pennsylvania House majority leader Mike Turzai addressed the Republican State Committee about his party’s successes while in control of state government.
Among those accomplishments, he said, was: “Voter ID, which is gonna allow Gov. Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania, done.”

Or it could be that it's possible now that democrats can only vote 1 time apiece.
http://www.nationalcenter.org/PR-PA_Voter_ID_071112.html

because of this:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/05/07/Voter-registration-fraud-charged-in-Pa/UPI-74311241752276/

but it is just not PA.
http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=92957

http://rickardsreview.com/2012/05/03/9-florida-democrats-arrested-for-voter-fraud/

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/more-democrat-fraud-arrests-4-indiana-dems-charged-with-election-fraud-in-2008-presidential-race/question-2560547/

HitsRus;1225276 wrote:Or it could be that it's possible now that democrats can only vote 1 time apiece.
http://www.nationalcenter.org/PR-PA_Voter_ID_071112.html

because of this:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/05/07/Voter-registration-fraud-charged-in-Pa/UPI-74311241752276/

but it is just not PA.
http://www.newsnet14.com/?p=92957

http://rickardsreview.com/2012/05/03/9-florida-democrats-arrested-for-voter-fraud/

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/more-democrat-fraud-arrests-4-indiana-dems-charged-with-election-fraud-in-2008-presidential-race/question-2560547/

Unbelievable, what kind of sleazy racist sites do you use to support your views. I click on one of your sources newsnet 14 and where do I go. And what do I find. Right at the top an audio recording of the Turner diaries and add for the racist white rabbit radio networl Then a series of racist photos of blacks, As you view the site you find claims Jews control the media and that the Holocaust never happened and buy Aryan wear. You sir are beyond the pale.

Alan West, Rush Limbaugh, Al Sharpton, Jess J......all race batters that see no merit at all in turning the page. They are all scum.

I find it a little strange that Obama is in 100 percent agreement that Blacks can and should work hard to become successful. Yes, Obama has said that publicly in speeches, yet this asshole West continues to single out Obama.

Footwedge;1225479 wrote:Alan West, Rush Limbaugh, Al Sharpton, Jess J......all race batters that see no merit at all in turning the page. They are all scum.

I find it a little strange that Obama is in 100 percent agreement that Blacks can and should work hard to become successful. Yes, Obama has said that publicly in speeches, yet this asshole West continues to single out Obama.

You put Limbaugh and West in the same category as Sharpton and Jackson? Hm and what else would Obama say? It's not like he is going to come out in speeches and say he wants everyone in the country to fail and live off of the government.

I find it hard to believe that unemployment among African Americans is like 16%, and yet 95% of them will vote for 4 more years. The milk from the gubmit tit must be a particular superior blend these days.