LOCKED: Browns BS Drama Continued...

posted by wes_mantooth

I don't think i would hate that at all....but really, they have to get their QB at 1.  No "best of the rest" pick for the franchise qb.  And I am guessing that Jackson isn't number 1 on their board.

 

Agreed. These dumbass mocks where they have the Browns taking Barkley at 1 and waiting to get their QB at 4, or later. are mighty assumptive by the mocker. Even if a franchise feels there isn't much difference between the top 4 QB's, I'm sure they have their favorite. In that case, you don't roll the dice hoping your favorite drops to you. You just take him and get it over with.

This isn't something to screw around with. With the new players and TT running the office, I doubt they will be drafting this high next year, or anytime soon.

posted by Commander of Awesome

Better than Allen + Barkley

not by a long shot

posted by vball10set

not by a long shot

By a huge long shot. In one scenario they take a worse Branden Weeden (useless), they other they get two players that can contribute.

posted by Commander of Awesome

By a huge long shot. In one scenario they take a worse Branden Weeden (useless), they other they get two players that can contribute.

There’s no way you can say he’s a worse Brandon weeden. That’s basically me playing quarterback. 

posted by SportsAndLady

There’s no way you can say he’s a worse Brandon weeden. That’s basically me playing quarterback. 

No, he's right. If you compare college stats and the competition each QB faced, it's not even close. Allen threw 16 TD's & 6 picks last year (less than 2000 yards). If you look at Trapped Under Flag Boys last two years at Oklahoma State, the yardage & TD's almost double Allen's over the same time frame, against tougher competition.

Call it "defending" Weeden if you want but at this point in their careers (NFL Draft time) he was light years ahead of Allen. With that being said, they are two peas in a pod (rifle arms/prototype QB builds, stare down receivers, can't anticipate a blitz, etc).

posted by BR1986FB

No, he's right. If you compare college stats and the competition each QB faced, it's not even close. Allen threw 16 TD's & 6 picks last year (less than 2000 yards). If you look at Trapped Under Flag Boys last two years at Oklahoma State, the yardage & TD's almost double Allen's over the same time frame, against tougher competition.

Call it "defending" Weeden if you want but at this point in their careers (NFL Draft time) he was light years ahead of Allen. With that being said, they are two peas in a pod (rifle arms/prototype QB builds, stare down receivers, can't anticipate a blitz, etc).

College stats don't mean jack shit to me. I'm not an Allen "guy" but he's fucking better than Brandon Weeden. You don't draft Allen for his college performances and stats. It's very obvious you're drafting him for his potential. 

posted by SportsAndLady

College stats don't mean jack shit to me. I'm not an Allen "guy" but he's fucking better than Brandon Weeden. You don't draft Allen for his college performances and stats. It's very obvious you're drafting him for his potential. 

No he's not, he's really really really bad.

posted by Commander of Awesome

No he's not, he's really really really bad.

Time (a lot of it) will tell.

No, I already know. He fucking blows. I'd be a bigger believer in JT Barret or Mason fucking Rudolph than him.

posted by Commander of Awesome

No, I already know. He fucking blows. I'd be a bigger believer in JT Barret or Mason fucking Rudolph than him.

You never know man. Sometimes players you’re deadset on sucking in the NFL, end up being great. 

posted by SportsAndLady

You never know man. Sometimes players you’re deadset on sucking in the NFL, end up being great. 

Yeah? Got a few names? It's usually the other way around, Greg Robinson, LeMichael James, Cam Erving, etc...

https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/983035372060934145

https://twitter.com/MikeClayNFL/status/960169194372452352

https://twitter.com/Ryan_McCrystal/status/954169670839382016?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1

Check this one for sure ^

Or read any Draft guy. Also, being a browns fan and knowing we needed a QB and hearing the Allen buzz, watched 3 of his games this season. He fucking sucks dude. I know you haven't watched him, and I know you want to put a good face on it if the Browns select him, but he fucking sucks at football.

posted by Commander of Awesome

Yeah? Got a few names? It's usually the other way around, Greg Robinson, LeMichael James, Cam Erving, etc...

https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/983035372060934145

https://twitter.com/MikeClayNFL/status/960169194372452352

https://twitter.com/Ryan_McCrystal/status/954169670839382016?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1

Check this one for sure ^

Or read any Draft guy. Also, being a browns fan and knowing we needed a QB and hearing the Allen buzz, watched 3 of his games this season. He fucking sucks dude. I know you haven't watched him, and I know you want to put a good face on it if the Browns select him, but he fucking sucks at football.

Again, he sucked in college. But he’s not being drafted for his college stats. He’s being drafted purely on potential. 

Russell Wilson. I thought he would suck watching his final year at wis. He ended up winning a super bowl by year 2. 

posted by SportsAndLady

Again, he sucked in college. But he’s not being drafted for his college stats. He’s being drafted purely on potential. 

 

Russell Wilson. I thought he would suck watching his final year at wis. He ended up winning a super bowl by year 2. 

When you're a long suffering, QB starved team, you don't use the #1 overall pick in the draft on "potential" unless you're someone like the Patriots who has that luxury. Hell, I'd rather see them use the pick on Andy Dalton, I mean Darnold (who I still think will be the #1 pick, and is the "safe...i.e. "average" choice), than (worse than) Brandon Weeden Part 2.

As a side note, this guy (Allen) is so raw, and can't read a defense, that he has frequently audibled his O-Line into protections that have left him (Allen) to be wide open to defenders on a pass rush. In other words, he's calling audibles that are going to get himself killed. Not to mention staring down receivers, limited "touch" on his shorter throws, etc.

posted by BR1986FB

When you're a long suffering, QB starved team, you don't use the #1 overall pick in the draft on "potential" unless you're someone like the Patriots who has that luxury. Hell, I'd rather see them use the pick on Andy Dalton, I mean Darnold (who I still think will be the #1 pick, and is the "safe...i.e. "average" choice), than (worse than) Brandon Weeden Part 2.

As a side note, this guy (Allen) is so raw, and can't read a defense, that he has frequently audibled his O-Line into protections that have left him (Allen) to be wide open to defenders on a pass rush. In other words, he's calling audibles that are going to get himself killed. Not to mention staring down receivers, limited "touch" on his shorter throws, etc.

No disagreement from me. Don't confuse me for the Allen guy. I've always said he's at the bottom of my QB rankings in this year's draft as far as the "elite" QBs go. My only point is that he does have a huge amount of potential; so I'm not going to say he's 100% going to suck. 

Oh, I've never confused you as an Allen guy. I know you've wanted either Darnold or Rosen. Allen may have potential but, considering where the Browns have been since 1999, I'd want a little more than upside/potential at #1. This guy is a total project.

Guys like Mayfield or Rosen I think could step in and start immediately. Darnold will probably need a year to sit (may start at the end of his first year). Allen is going to need to sit like Aaron Rodgers did (probably 2 years plus), minus the luxury of having Brett Favre in front of him. Rodgers sat that long, not because he wasn't good but because of the HOFer in front of him. Allen would have to sit because he's that bad.

If I had to lay money on this, I think the pick will still be Darnold. The national guys are hearing Allen while the local guys, who have ears in the building (not Grossi or MKC), are still hearing Darnold.

Interesting notes about the Browns at #1 from Albert Breer (MMQB). Also jumped out at me the comment about "if you're drafting at 22 you might as well be drafting at 52" as the talent is about the same....

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/12/cleveland-browns-nfl-draft-rumors-quarterback-mmqb

I really think it after all these smoke and mirrors...just like every year, It is going to be Darnold and Chubb

The only other scenario i think is a possibility is trading that 4th pick to Buffalo.

Seems like it will be 

1. Darnold

2. Barkley

3. Mayfield

4. Chubb

posted by wes_mantooth

I really think it after all these smoke and mirrors...just like every year, It is going to be Darnold and Chubb

The only other scenario i think is a possibility is trading that 4th pick to Buffalo.

Seems like it will be 

1. Darnold

2. Barkley

3. Mayfield

4. Chubb

I think it could play out this way too except maybe Rosen at 3 to the Jets. I just can't see a QB (Allen) that should be a 3rd to 5th rounder, in a normal draft, being taken #1 overall. 

I see a lot of similarities between Weeden/Allen.  Tall, big hands, rocket arm, etc.  The main difference is Weeden was old and had a better completion % in a tougher conference.  

You can say college stats don't mean shit (I mostly understand this argument), but a shitty completion % is a huge flag for somebody.  Especially, in a shitty conference.  Everyone likes to bring up the "he lost a lot of talent" a lot of talent excuse, but his completion % was also 56%. 

posted by like_that

I see a lot of similarities between Weeden/Allen.  Tall, big hands, rocket arm, etc.  The main difference is Weeden was old and had a better completion % in a tougher conference.  

 

You can say college stats don't mean shit (I mostly understand this argument), but a shitty completion % is a huge flag for somebody.  Especially, in a shitty conference.  Everyone likes to bring up the "he lost a lot of talent" a lot of talent excuse, but his completion % was also 56%. 

 

In 2016, when Allen threw for 3200 yards, 28 TD's and 15 INT's his completion percentage was 56%. In 2017, when he threw for 1800 yards, 16 TD's and 6 INT's his completion percentage was 56.3%....little to no difference. Dude is not accurate, as you mentioned.

I wasn't defending Weeden earlier because I know I whiffed on that pick and the dude is dog shit but he was light year's ahead of Allen coming out of college.

You want to see something there where you can say "yeah, this could be the guy" but other than size & arm strength (been there, done that with Weeden, DA & Kizer) there's nothing that jumps out at me where I'm saying "sprint to the podium and turn int he card at 1 for him."