Game of Thrones Final Season Discussion Thread

posted by gut

Sooooooo.....does the Iron Bank just take a huge write-off, or do they foreclose on King's Landing?

Or simply get written off as "that thing the show-runners used from time to time to print money and make veiled threats, but then forget about"?!

As for Dany/Mad Queen, yeah, to me, that's been forecast a lot over the course of the season. From crucifying all those dudes at the one city because they did that to slaves to scare her off (and going from what the minor character that tried to romance her said about his father, she wasn't taking the time to make sure she got dudes who actually were into the slave crucifying) to roasting the Tarlys for not immediately bending the knee and so on. And a lot of her actions being shaped by her council throughout those early seasons. And of those characters, Jorah, Barristan, Missandrei are all dead and Dairio got left behind in the country of "not necessary to the plot any more"; while Tyrion is on her shit list, Varys found out what happens to people on her shit list and she views Jon as having betrayed her due to telling his sisters about his heritage. All of whom showed their fair share of wisdom and nuance while helping her. Which means the one person she might be listening to is Gray Worm, who lost the one person he cares about and has basically reverted back to "castrated killing machine" as a result.

Gut,

As for Bronn, the  main reason I mentioned him is that, to me, he is the wild card for the last show. He wants something and basically has no logical way to get it. He also said his fighting days were over, but his killing days aren't. And he's a very popular semi-regular character whom you can't see the show-writers just easing out of things without conflict. So he could either wind up with a big kill next week, or go out with a whimper trying to make something big happen

posted by Heretic

As for Bronn.....So he could either wind up with a big kill next week, or go out with a whimper trying to make something big happen

That's an interesting theory.  I like it - unexpected and makes sense.  I'm not sure Jon would actually kill Dany, and it seems pretty clear he won't press his claim while she's still alive.  There aren't many others left to do the deed.  I don't think Tyrion can or will do it, and it would be kind of lame if Arya assassinates her.

Read a review that had some next-level feminazism over the portrayals of Dany and Arya in this episode.

How miserable does your life have to be to get triggered by a TV show that doesn't treat every character in a way that aligns with your worldview?

posted by Laley23

I disagree. She has been the Mad Queen since early S1, and had quite a few moments of it every season to confirm. I would’ve been mad had they laid out her character like that then NOT had her kill a bunch of innocents.

 

Agreed. There's been no shortage of foreshadowing for Dany's heel turn since day one. It just felt a little rushed there at the end...would have been nice with a couple of extra episodes to draw it out a little bit more. 

Gendry on the throne when we cut to black? It's starting to seem plausible to me. 

Also, it was pretty awesome how the Lord of Light grew Jamie's hand back for him there at the end. 

posted by fish82

Agreed. There's been no shortage of foreshadowing for Dany's heel turn since day one. It just felt a little rushed there at the end...would have been nice with a couple of extra episodes to draw it out a little bit more. 

Gendry on the throne when we cut to black? It's starting to seem plausible to me. 

It seems like maybe it's mostly book readers that are upset, so I guess the books must give a different impression.  But on GoT, homicidal tendencies?  Check.  Loves to barbecue?  Check.  Serious narcissism?  Check.  Pretty much the textbook definition of a psychopath.

The thing about Gendry is why else keep him around all this time?  He's never been necessary to the story, beyond the first season or two where he was a fake-out on being the next/rightful heir to the throne. So why did they seem to go out of their way to insert him back into the narrative?  I really thought Dany legitimizing him was too much on the nose.  If that was just a misdirection (one that I haven't really seen any critics even pay notice), then it was really badly executed AND a giant waste of precious time they didn't have.

posted by fish82

Also, it was pretty awesome how the Lord of Light grew Jamie's hand back for him there at the end. 

Which hand?  They showed his left hand around her throat.  I never saw the right hand.  Proof?

I wanted to post this in the memes thread in politics but i was afraid i would spoil something if anybody was still watching...

So, what's everyone's guess on who will "sit" on the throne? 

I'm inclined to think it is not someone, but rather a council, like outlined in the Ringer today. This could "break the wheel" that Dany and Tyrion talked about. Jon refuses to take the throne and heads north after he kills Dany. 

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/17/18628839/game-of-thrones-season-8-finale-preview-who-will-rule-jon-daenerys-tyrion-bran-sansa-gendry

The Council would be the following: 

• The Far North - Jon Snow
• The North - Sansa Stark
• The Iron Islands - Yara Greyjoy
• The Riverlands - Edmure Tully (… wherever he is) (Or Hot Pie!)
• The Vale - Robin Arryn
• The Westerlands - Tyrion Lannister
• The Crownlands - Davos Seaworth
• The Reach - Sam Tarly (if not Bronn in Highgarden!)
• The Stormlands - Gendry Baratheon
• Dorne - The unnamed Dornish Prince

posted by ptown_trojans_1

So, what's everyone's guess on who will "sit" on throne? 

I'm inclined to think it is not someone, but rather a council, like outlined in the Ringer today. This could "break the wheel" that Dany and Tyrion talked about. John refuses to take the throne and heads north after he kills Dany. 

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/5/17/18628839/game-of-thrones-season-8-finale-preview-who-will-rule-jon-daenerys-tyrion-bran-sansa-gendry

The Council would be the following: 

To me, the obvious answer is Jon. We spent 7 seasons watching Dany grow only to be trapped predictably into being the mad queen. Jon has been saying he doesn't want to be king and all signs point to he can't avoid it even if he wants to. 

Jon would ultimately feel duty-bound to take the throne.   However, I think he becomes the 1000th Commander of the Night Watch because the White Walkers aren't actually gone.

I think Sansa may end-up on the throne.  Because for all this talk about breaking the wheel, no one has ever actually thought about what that looks like!

Maybe the big plot twist will be Dany kills Jon (and then maybe Arya kills Dany).  Or Drogon will try to torch Jon, but he'll emerge unburnt....with his flaming sword that he'll drive thru Dany's heart.

Some are saying that the gems in Varys’s  ring will be used to poison her like Joffrey 

posted by geeblock

Some are saying that the gems in Varys’s  ring will be used to poison her like Joffrey 

Might be why it was so important to remove his rings.  Though presumably the kitchen girl already has the poison, and she might still carry out that plot even though Varys is dead (he did give her that big speech about "the greater the risk, the greater the reward").

Or maybe Bran wargs into Drogon, does a barrel roll, and Dany falls to her death.

posted by gut

Might be why it was so important to remove his rings.  Though presumably the kitchen girl already has the poison, and she might still carry out that plot even though Varys is dead (he did give her that big speech about "the greater the risk, the greater the reward").

Or maybe Bran wargs into Drogon, does a barrel roll, and Dany falls to her death.

Speaking of Varys, I was kind of thinking about your post from after the fourth episode where you mentioned the focus on Missandei at the end. To me that was one of those things, where as a pure narrative, the focus on her made sense (one of Dany's closest people getting slaughtered after she already lost Jorah and a dragon, adding to her "goin' crazy" descent), but as pure TV, it fell kind of short because on air, Dany/Missandei really didn't share a ton of screen time. Just going off the top of my head, the only memorable scene with the two was probably the first one, where Missandei was being all diplomatic to Dany while translating all the insulting dialogue that Unsullied master was dishing out. But overall, I'd say what I remember her most for were (1) the hilariously awkward joke-telling scene with her, Grey Worm and Tyrion and (2) her and Grey Worm getting closer.

And I think the whole "Varys betraying Dany" is kind of the same thing, except even more shaky when it comes to what we watched.

First, the sixth season ended with Varys recruiting Olenna Tyrell (old women whose entire family was wiped out by Cersei and the city's Wildfire stock) and the Sand Snakes (crazy bitches looking to kill people because Oberyn got killed in a fucking fair fight to the death). He specifically alluded to how they should join with Dany because of vengeance (with the words "Fire and Blood").

And then, other than maybe killing the Tarlys due to not bending the knee, Dany didn't really do anything overly Mad Queen-like in the seventh season and fought with the North against the Army of the Dead, losing a dragon and a trusted advisor/friend in the process AND THEN lost another dragon and trusted advisor/friend the instant they started moving on Kings Landing.

And suddenly, Varys is all like, "We gotta push this chick out because she WANTS power and Jon Snow doesn't, so that means he's a better choice!". Dude's supposed to be this super-clever behind-the-scenes chessmaster and he wound up coming off like this emotionally clumsy dolt who switches sides on the spur of the moment for flimsy reasons.

Kind of like how the Missandrei/Dany relationship got shorted a bit over the duration of the show, I think Varys' misgivings and how they grew about Dany also grew, as he went from on her side to wanting her dead seemingly over the course of days.

posted by Heretic

Kind of like how the Missandrei/Dany relationship got shorted a bit over the duration of the show, I think Varys' misgivings and how they grew about Dany also grew, as he went from on her side to wanting her dead seemingly over the course of days.

It was all just clumsy, like everything else this season.  Just the mechanics of making it happen were pretty awful, and it felt like the beheading was done for shock value as much as anything.  And others pointed out, rightly so, that she was far more useful as a human shield to Cersei.  Visually, though, watching that head tumble down just ahead of the body was serious death porn.

I guess that was supposed to be the final straw, but I agree the whole "Mad Queen" thing biggest problem was she never slaughtered innocents, nor expressed any desire to do so.  But there was always the undertone, and Varys/Tyrion and others always kind of had to walk her back from the edge.  So Varys knows there's a history, probably due to the incest, and he's seen plenty to be concerned with.  Remember, he tells Jon "I'm not sure how her coin has landed...."

It hasn't gotten much attention, it doesn't seem, but Grey Worm also went full war criminal....so for that you kind of needed the Missandei thing.  "Red-shirt" is a bit of hyperbole, but really that whole episode just had so many, many problems.