Covid-19 discussion, continued...

The revealing of the specifics around the vaccine mandate has made my day super shitty. It was hard to prepare for what was coming without knowledge of what the mandate actually said. 

Can you elaborate? 

posted by gut

I wonder what the correlation is between people convinced Covid was created in a lab, and people convinced the vaccines don't work?

It has been relatively widely accepted that Covid-19 actually was created in a lab, in the Wuhan lab.

It’s not really a conspiracy theory anymore.

posted by gut

I wonder what the correlation is between people convinced Covid was created in a lab, and people convinced the vaccines don't work?

I can't figure out how ANYONE can claim the latter under any circumstance. In round numbers, half the adult population (in the U.S.) is vaccinated, half not. Yet the un-vaccinated make up a significantly higher percentage of those in the hospital and fatalities (80-90+%). There's just no case to be made that it doesn't work.

posted by queencitybuckeye

I can't figure out how ANYONE can claim the latter under and circumstance.

I guess it depends on what you mean by “work”.

The shots help the shot receiver get far lesser symptoms if they happen to get Covid-19.

The shot does not prevent anyone from getting Covid-19 nor does it prevent anyone from transmitting Covid-19.

So it works for the person that gets the shot.

It doesn’t work at “stamping out the pandemic” and making the virus go away like it was sold as.

If the world was 100% vaccinated COVID-19 would still exist, would still be transmitted, would still mutate, and we would still have to get boosters every year, like the flu, as it mutates.

100% vaccination only lowers the hospital load, which is obviously a good thing.

The idea that the unvaccinated are somehow spreading it more than vaccinated and somehow getting vaccinated sick so it’s a work Heath crisis, is perpetuated by people who are either lying or haven’t read the actual scientific reports.

posted by Automatik

Can you elaborate? 

Yes; it's a fucking disaster.  

FJB worthy

posted by Automatik

Can you elaborate? 

Rules about the number of employees (was unclear about 100 total or 100 at a site). If separate LLCs under a single Corp are lumped together. Specific rules about unvaccinated. More rules that weren't even mentioned before. The list goes on. The ETS is about 156 pages, so it is taking a bit to decipher. 

posted by jmog

It has been relatively widely accepted that Covid-19 actually was created in a lab, in the Wuhan lab.

It’s not really a conspiracy theory anymore.

Nothing in the above post is accurate.  It's now widely accepted it MAY have escaped from a research lab, but that's quite a bit different from what you wrote.

posted by gut
Nothing in the above post is accurate.  It's now widely accepted it MAY have escaped from a research lab, but that's quite a bit different from what you wrote.

I would say if you take an existing virus, do gain of function research on it and therefore change it, that this is synonymous with “created”. 

Maybe I used 1 word that simplified a compound sentence description, but in fact it was an existing virus, that was changed with gain of function, and later escaped.

I mean that is rather widely accepted, far more than someone eating a raw bat.

posted by jmog

I guess it depends on what you mean by “work”.

Granted, but of all of the possible definitions, having a minimal chance of spending time in a hospital and close to a zero chance of it killing me is the one I'll go with.

posted by queencitybuckeye
Granted, but of all of the possible definitions, having a minimal chance of spending time in a hospital and close to a zero chance of it killing me is the one I'll go with.

Absolutely  

My only concern is the portrayal that the unvaccinated people are somehow killing/harming the vaccinated and therefore we need to fire them if they don’t get it.

That’s a rather stupid and unscientific take on what is actually going on as well as Orwellian.

posted by jmog

The shots help the shot receiver get far lesser symptoms if they happen to get Covid-19.

The shot does not prevent anyone from getting Covid-19 nor does it prevent anyone from transmitting Covid-19.ts.

Holy crap that post is like copy pasta from Infowars or something.  Just so much ignorance

"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance."

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/10/29/new-study-fully-vaccinated-individuals-with-breakthrough-infections-have-peak-viral-load-similar-to-unvaccinated-cases-and-can-efficiently-transmit-infection-in-household-settings-including-to-a/

posted by gut

Holy crap that post is like copy pasta from Infowars or something.  Just so much ignorance

"Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance."

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2021/10/29/new-study-fully-vaccinated-individuals-with-breakthrough-infections-have-peak-viral-load-similar-to-unvaccinated-cases-and-can-efficiently-transmit-infection-in-household-settings-including-to-a/

Been there, proved you wrong, don’t need to go there again.

Move along.

This guy knows it all.

posted by Automatik

This guy knows it all.

Nope, not at all. But do read a ton of scientific literature.

posted by jmog

I would say if you take an existing virus, do gain of function research on it and therefore change it, that this is synonymous with “created”.

LOL, several unverified leaps in there.  I believe ONE - singular - researcher claimed to identify a marker of genetic manipulation.  But the consensus has always remained NO genetic alterations.  And no one has questioned zoonotic origin.

So, no, literally there's no proof it was "created" in a lab.  I'm not in the habit of reaching conclusions and declaring something "widely accepted" in the absence of supporting evidence. .

posted by gut

LOL, several unverified leaps in there.  I believe ONE - singular - researcher claimed to identify a marker of genetic manipulation.  But the consensus has always remained NO genetic alterations.  And no one has questioned zoonotic origin.

So, no, literally there's no proof it was "created" in a lab.  I'm not in the habit of reaching conclusions and declaring something "widely accepted" in the absence of supporting evidence. .

The NIH confirmed that they funded gain of function research on bat coronavirus’.

As you said, it is widely accepted that it escaped from the Wuhan lab.

Connect the dots…

posted by jmog

Been there, proved you wrong, don’t need to go there again.

Proved what wrong, exactly?  The study just came out in the last week.. 

Did you ever educate yourself on the factors of transmissibility?  For someone who claims to read so much research, you don't seem to actually understand any of it.

posted by jmog

I would say if you take an existing virus, do gain of function research on it and therefore change it, that this is synonymous with “created”. 

Maybe I used 1 word that simplified a compound sentence description, but in fact it was an existing virus, that was changed with gain of function, and later escaped.

I mean that is rather widely accepted, far more than someone eating a raw bat.

Widely accepted? By who exactly?

You say you read, so you will know that it is not widely accepted. It is plausible, but not even remotely proven. 

It is correct it is not in the realm of tinfoil hat land, but it is far, far from described as accepted. 

Even our IC is pretty cautious on the language, say, "was not sufficient evidence to make an assessment either way"

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Declassified-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf

I pop in for just a minute and see you going all smug ass level. 

posted by jmog

The NIH confirmed that they funded gain of function research on bat coronavirus’.

As you said, it is widely accepted that it escaped from the Wuhan lab.

Connect the dots…

What dots...lotta assuming you are doing there.

There is zero hard evidence it was actually engineered or was not simply from another source that just happened to also be in the lab.

The same amount of evidence exists that it was engineered vs. that a bat or animal at the lab had it from nature and it crossed over to infect a human....zero. 

These levels of assumption is exactly how we get intelligence errors.