Progressives, part 3...

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

You’ve not managed to hurt my feelings on this or any other thread.  It’s been my experience that people who call their opponents stupid in a discussion are the people who tend to yell louder to make their point.  Those type of people are often blind to their own flaws and generally not as intelligent as they seem to think they are.

I think Trump’s been a much worse influence on our nation than many other leaders who have been plenty horrible in their own right.  That’s my opinion based upon my experience.  It’s not a zero sum game.  I think Biden is a loser and favor maker.  I think Hillary is an egotistical narcissist.  I just happen to hold the belief that Trump dumped more shit in the pool than they did.  He was in a powerful enough position to do this - others haven’t been.  This is partly due to his blind followers being more numerous than those others in my opinion.  I believe history will judge him to be a horrible blight on our country

I think that Trump definitely went against the natural order of things. At least, according to how DC had gotten used to the "natural order of things". I am not sure if history will judge him to be a horrible blight.

If we are talking about his blizzard of EO's and him caving to the mass hysteria of bump stocks, then I kinda agree with you. 

But he was effectively neutered on almost all of his agenda, was he not?

IMO, the horrible blight on history was govt and media working together to censor and ban to portray him as the next hitler. That's not even taking into account the govt raids and arrests.

I’m currently traveling on business. I swear I think I sat close to Quaker at breakfast this morning.  This guy was about 55-60 and it became clear that he was sitting with his subordinate - thus a captive audience.  In about 15-20 minutes, he explained with few supporting details:

1. How the 2020 election was completely rigged.

2. How the FBI have prevented transcripts or recordings of Trump’s January 6th speech from being released because in it he says “Now I want all of you to go home peacefully.”

3. How Obama had been disbarred in the 1990s and weaseled out of going to prison.

4. How Trump had scared Putin and that his invasion of Ukraine was his attempt to protect his border before Trump comes back.

5. How the founders mandated school prayer.

6. How the “real history” stopped being taught in the 90s due to Hillary’s influence.

His only evidence for any of this was his repeated line of “All this stuff’s well documented.”

I thought “man, that’s got to be Quaker.”  It would make sense since he appeared to be eating oatmeal.

posted by jmog

You believe Trump created the mess of election doubting?

Did you pay no attention to the mess after the Bush/Gore election? Or how about the Ds after Hilary lost to Trump?

All of them are bad, but to act like Trump started the election doubting mess is forgetting major recent historical events.

You are completely forgetting things. In both cases you cite, the loser accepted the result and conceded. 

Trump did the opposite. 

Yes, some politicians have expressed some legal doubt, but all of them gave conceded and none of them went anywhere close to what Trump did at the end of 2020. 

To act like they are the same is exactly what I am talking about. You are giving Trump a hell of a pass for how outrageous it was and still is with what he is saying and doing. 

posted by jmog

Downplaying what the Ds and Hillary did for basically all 4 years of Trump is odd to me.

They made up that the sitting President colluded with a foreign adversary and stole an election.

Russia Collusion was a Hoax started by the DNC and Hillary. I don't see how what Trump is doing is "exponentially" worse. Its bad, probably as bad, but not WAY worse than accusing the the sitting President of colluding with a foreign government to steal an election with no actual evidence is asinine.

That is just as bad as the BS Trump did after the election.

You may feel one is a little worse than the other, and that can be debated, but saying one is exponentially worse than the other is just asinine.

Again, you are completely forgetting things and conflating and combining a lot of things.

The Russian thing has all been conflated and combined into the language Trump is using a hoax, when in reality there were arrests, convictions, and prison time for numerous folks in Trumps orbit. 

To act like that is nothing and just like whatever democrats are doing is laughable to me. 

To me, Trump is considerably worse than old man Biden. 

Again, for folks on this board that lean libertarian, everything Trump is saying about expanding federal power to go after people, should be a real concern. I mean look at the Project 2025 plan.

I hardly think there is conflation or even misunderstanding. That's just a weird way to say political persecution is happening.  We were even warned that it would happen by the Dems in DC.

If you want to say that Trump was out of line and flicked their noses pretty hard and got a retaliation I think you would be on solid ground. But selective memory doesn't justify the fuckery that has been going on.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

You’ve not managed to hurt my feelings on this or any other thread.  It’s been my experience that people who call their opponents stupid in a discussion are the people who tend to yell louder to make their point.  Those type of people are often blind to their own flaws and generally not as intelligent as they seem to think they are.

I think Trump’s been a much worse influence on our nation than many other leaders who have been plenty horrible in their own right.  That’s my opinion based upon my experience.  It’s not a zero sum game.  I think Biden is a loser and favor maker.  I think Hillary is an egotistical narcissist.  I just happen to hold the belief that Trump dumped more shit in the pool than they did.  He was in a powerful enough position to do this - others haven’t been.  This is partly due to his blind followers being more numerous than those others in my opinion.  I believe history will judge him to be a horrible blight on our country

Saying ones statement or assertion is asinine/stupid is not the same as calling the person stupid.

I did not call you stupid.

You’re better than that.

One side made up a hoax that the sitting president colluded with a foreign adversary to steal the election.

One said the other side stole the election and tried to overturn the results.

Both wrong, but saying the second one is “exponentially worse” is absolutely an asinine statement and claim.  

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You are completely forgetting things. In both cases you cite, the loser accepted the result and conceded. 

Trump did the opposite. 

Yes, some politicians have expressed some legal doubt, but all of them gave conceded and none of them went anywhere close to what Trump did at the end of 2020. 

To act like they are the same is exactly what I am talking about. You are giving Trump a hell of a pass for how outrageous it was and still is with what he is saying and doing. 

1. No pass at all, Trump is an asshole. 

2. Trump didn’t concede. Hillary and the DNC claimed and made up for 3+ years that Trump stole the election, was illegitimate, and colluded with a foreign adversary to steel it. Thats not exactly conceding, that’s calling the election into question

3. Gore and DNC fought over hanging chads for nearly 2 months before conceding.

The point is that Trump didn’t start this “questioning election” BS.  He may have made it worse, but truthfully his BS is just as bad as what they did to him in 2016-2019. It’s almost flip a coin 

Obviously both way worse than the Gore/hanging chad scenario.

But come on ptown, pointing out flaws in someone else’s argument that Trump somehow was the one that started questioning elections is not even close to “giving Trump a pass”.

Trumps and asshole and has caused a shit ton of BS, even more so after he lost that during his presidency.

Thats the truth. But pointing out that Ds suck at times as well turns you into a “see, your a MAGA MORON like this whole board” even though all of us except QO can’t stand Trump.

There is not a single R I would vote Trump over.

I would vote RFK, Tulsi Gabbard (if she runs again), etc over Trump from the D side.

I would only vote for Trump over Biden and Harris. Can’t vote in 4 more years of dementia and Roomba walking around stages after a speech. 

posted by jmog

1. No pass at all, Trump is an asshole. 

2. Trump didn’t concede. Hillary and the DNC claimed and made up for 3+ years that Trump stole the election, was illegitimate, and colluded with a foreign adversary to steel it. Thats not exactly conceding, that’s calling the election into question

3. Gore and DNC fought over hanging chads for nearly 2 months before conceding.

The point is that Trump didn’t start this “questioning election” BS.  He may have made it worse, but truthfully his BS is just as bad as what they did to him in 2016-2019. It’s almost flip a coin 

Obviously both way worse than the Gore/hanging chad scenario.

But come on ptown, pointing out flaws in someone else’s argument that Trump somehow was the one that started questioning elections is not even close to “giving Trump a pass”.

Trumps and asshole and has caused a shit ton of BS, even more so after he lost that during his presidency.

Thats the truth. But pointing out that Ds suck at times as well turns you into a “see, your a MAGA MORON like this whole board” even though all of us except QO can’t stand Trump.

There is not a single R I would vote Trump over.

I would vote RFK, Tulsi Gabbard (if she runs again), etc over Trump from the D side.

I would only vote for Trump over Biden and Harris. Can’t vote in 4 more years of dementia and Roomba walking around stages after a speech. 

Our disagreement boils down to this. 

You see everything that Trump as done and said as just the same as everything that Democrats have done or said. I see them as drastically different and what Trump did between election day and Jan 6 as far, far worse. 

The fact you cannot see the difference is in fact giving him a pass. 

 You think this even though you are just flat wrong on your 2nd point. You are conflating and combining a lot of items just as Trump does using the same language. So while you may not like Trump, you have accepted and even using his own language and line of thinking.

You may not like him, but you are acting and thinking just like him. Congrats. 

Trump was right. He could kill someone on 5th Avenue and you would still vote for him over Biden. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Our disagreement boils down to this. 

You see everything that Trump as done and said as just the same as everything that Democrats have done or said. I see them as drastically different and what Trump did between election day and Jan 6 as far, far worse. 

The fact you cannot see the difference is in fact giving him a pass. 

 You think this even though you are just flat wrong on your 2nd point. You are conflating and combining a lot of items just as Trump does using the same language. So while you may not like Trump, you have accepted and even using his own language and line of thinking.

You may not like him, but you are acting and thinking just like him. Congrats. 

Trump was right. He could kill someone on 5th Avenue and you would still vote for him over Biden. 

Speaking of Trump, I heard today that the woman who sued him for sexual harassment (and won) is now suing him again because he continues to deny it 

posted by CenterBHSFan

Speaking of Trump, I heard today that the woman who sued him for sexual harassment (and won) is now suing him again because he continues to deny it 

Deep State getting its revenge  

posted by CenterBHSFan

Speaking of Trump, I heard today that the woman who sued him for sexual harassment (and won) is now suing him again because he continues to deny it 

Defamation suit, which she won for $83M because as posters say on here Trump is an asshole and can't keep his mouth shut. 

I highly doubt he pays because he will just appeal and appeal.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Defamation suit, which she won for $83M because as posters say on here Trump is an asshole and can't keep his mouth shut. 

I highly doubt he pays because he will just appeal and appeal.

Also an absolutely ludicrous amount of money.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Our disagreement boils down to this. 

You see everything that Trump as done and said as just the same as everything that Democrats have done or said. I see them as drastically different and what Trump did between election day and Jan 6 as far, far worse. 

The fact you cannot see the difference is in fact giving him a pass. 

 You think this even though you are just flat wrong on your 2nd point. You are conflating and combining a lot of items just as Trump does using the same language. So while you may not like Trump, you have accepted and even using his own language and line of thinking.

You may not like him, but you are acting and thinking just like him. Congrats. 

Trump was right. He could kill someone on 5th Avenue and you would still vote for him over Biden. 

So you are giving the whole DNC and Hillary a pass for lying about a sitting President colluding with a foreign adversary since you don’t think that’s as bad as Trump.

See how asinine that statement is?

posted by jmog

So you are giving the whole DNC and Hillary a pass for lying about a sitting President colluding with a foreign adversary since you don’t think that’s as bad as Trump.

See how asinine that statement is?

Not nearly as stupid as what you typed. 

I too can generalize and say that the RNC won’t even acknowledge that Trump is a lying Draft dodging rapist that led an insurrection attempt during a constitutionally mandated session of congress at the capital and his own party is going to “punish” him by giving him the nomination for President

posted by Devils Advocate

Not nearly as stupid as what you typed. 

I too can generalize and say that the RNC won’t even acknowledge that Trump is a lying Draft dodging rapist that led an insurrection attempt during a constitutionally mandated session of congress at the capital and his own party is going to “punish” him by giving him the nomination for President

I see you don’t see the hypocrisy of your own statement. Self awareness is usually a key to seeing reality rather than confirmation biased opinions.

Quaker, why are your people all wigged out about Taylor Swift and the NFL?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Quaker, why are your people all wigged out about Taylor Swift and the NFL?

I'm not QO, but just wanted to say that I have no opinion on Swift/NFL.

posted by CenterBHSFan

I'm not QO, but just wanted to say that I have no opinion on Swift/NFL.

Kind of feels like that other "HUGE" right-wing conspiracy about the pizza parlor.

The Left is pretty good at mining the depths of the internet to find 5 incels making bad jokes and using that to characterize 45M Republican voters.

posted by gut

Kind of feels like that other "HUGE" right-wing conspiracy about the pizza parlor.

The Left is pretty good at mining the depths of the internet to find 5 incels making bad jokes and using that to characterize 45M Republican voters.

Ehh, both right and left are pretty good at forming all these conspiracies IMO. I've long since decided to just wait it out and see if they come true. A good amount of them do come true and that's the problem haha