Progressives, part 3...

posted by iclfan2

This is a complete lie from a corrupt liar.

Gun manufacturers are absolutely civilly liable for product defects. What they're not liable for are *criminal misuses* of their products, just like tire makers and gas stations are not liable for hit-and-runs. https://t.co/VYa2cffjWe

— Sean Davis (@seanmdav) July 6, 2021

Cuomo blamed red states for the gun crime in NY saying that people are bringing in guns from out of state.  In case he didn't know, it is illegal to bring guns in to NY.  Another democrat hack blaming others when it is their own liberal policies that are destroying their cities. 

The guy should be in jail for sending 15,000 elderly to their deaths, not to mention criminal workplace harassment; but when you're a democrat it's different, you can get away with anything.

posted by QuakerOats

Cuomo blamed red states for the gun crime in NY saying that people are bringing in guns from out of state.

I've heard that same argument numerous times about Chicago.  Several years ago, there was a study of guns recovered in crimes - 20% were from out-of-state.

The vast majority of guns used in crimes in this country are STOLEN.  There might be large numbers of "fronts" purchasing and re-selling guns to gangs, but I'm pretty sure law enforcement is on top of that and it's not widespread.

posted by gut

I've heard that same argument numerous times about Chicago.  Several years ago, there was a study of guns recovered in crimes - 20% were from out-of-state.

The vast majority of guns used in crimes in this country are STOLEN.  There might be large numbers of "fronts" purchasing and re-selling guns to gangs, but I'm pretty sure law enforcement is on top of that and it's not widespread.

Perhaps there could be more focus on the legal owners who are robbed of their guns. According to the statistics, tens of thousands of stolen guns are used in crimes. From whom were they stolen?  If this is true, there must be hundreds or thousands of gun thefts every day or every week. Most legal gun owners I know are very careful in securing their weapons (I don't know anyone who's ever had a gun stolen from them). So who is not maintaining the necessary security over their weapon and allowing it to be stolen?  If someone just leaves a gun lying around sloppily, it gets stolen and is then used to commit a crime, there may be reason for some accountability there. This seems like where a huge disconnect exists in the issue. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

From whom were they stolen?  If this is true, there must be hundreds or thousands of gun thefts every day or every week. Most legal gun owners I know are very careful in securing their weapons

It's absolutely true.  Estimates are 200k guns stolen annually in the US.  That's out of some 400M guns, or about 0.05%.

I doubt a lot of these guns are being stolen from your suburban friends where breakins/theft are very low, along with the means to have expensive and heavy safes that might prevent theft. 

So your proposal would create additional financial burdens on gun ownership among the poorest people in the highest crime areas that need access the most.

The other problem with your proposal is there's also the issue of a gun for defense needing to be readily and quickly accessible.

Never forget how much liberals sucked this guy’s dick. As he sits in a courtroom crying today, while only getting sentenced to 30 months for trying to extort Nike. Don’t worry, he still has 2 more federal cases to be tried at.

posted by gut

It's absolutely true.  Estimates are 200k guns stolen annually in the US.  That's out of some 400M guns, or about 0.05%.

I doubt a lot of these guns are being stolen from your suburban friends where breakins/theft are very low, along with the means to have expensive and heavy safes that might prevent theft. 

So your proposal would create additional financial burdens on gun ownership among the poorest people in the highest crime areas that need access the most.

The other problem with your proposal is there's also the issue of a gun for defense needing to be readily and quickly accessible.

How and where I store my guns in my own home is no one else’s business. Any storage requirements are absolute bullshit unless entered into voluntarily for something like foster parenting or the like.

posted by justincredible

How and where I store my guns in my own home is no one else’s business. Any storage requirements are absolute bullshit unless entered into voluntarily for something like foster parenting or the like.

Good point.  What's next - prosecuting people who didn't lock-up their vicodin that got stolen and ended-up killing some high school kid from an OD?

Saw a guy who just lost his little girl saying "people know something and need to come forward...but they won't, I know how it is".  What he really needed was some woke white people alongside him shouting "silence is violence".

posted by gut

It's absolutely true.  Estimates are 200k guns stolen annually in the US.  That's out of some 400M guns, or about 0.05%.

I doubt a lot of these guns are being stolen from your suburban friends where breakins/theft are very low, along with the means to have expensive and heavy safes that might prevent theft. 

So your proposal would create additional financial burdens on gun ownership among the poorest people in the highest crime areas that need access the most.

The other problem with your proposal is there's also the issue of a gun for defense needing to be readily and quickly accessible.

I get your points. I'm just trying to think about this - how do you prevent the criminal class from obtaining them?  I honestly have no idea. It seems largely as an expected part of life to those in an around that group. 

posted by gut

Good point.  What's next - prosecuting people who didn't lock-up their vicodin that got stolen and ended-up killing some high school kid from an OD?

Saw a guy who just lost his little girl saying "people know something and need to come forward...but they won't, I know how it is".  What he really needed was some woke white people alongside him shouting "silence is violence".

The woke white people would blame other white people for causing the conditions that made the shooter understandably feel as though he had no other option. 

posted by gut

Good point.  What's next - prosecuting people who didn't lock-up their vicodin that got stolen and ended-up killing some high school kid from an OD?

Drug companies have been forced to pay billions due to their products getting into the wrong hands. 

Gun violence in some situations (Chicago) is just a symptom of a deeper problem in the culture of those areas.  Not the right thread for that discussion.  

As for the the other 99% of guns and gun owners in this country, new laws and regulations arent stopping what is going on today in major cities.

If someone steals my car and runs someone down, should I be liable?

posted by justincredible

If someone steals my car and runs someone down, should I be liable?

I guess not. But I have a hard time believing all of these guns used in violence are truly stolen. That just seems not plausible.  Tens of thousands of legal, law abiding, yet poor gun owners are robbed of their guns every year?  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I guess not. But I have a hard time believing all of these guns used in violence are truly stolen. That just seems not plausible.  Tens of thousands of legal, law abiding, yet poor gun owners are robbed of their guns every year?  

So you're saying that people that are knowingly going to be out committing gun violence are going to do it with guns that they purchased legally and are registered to them? Or are they going to obtain weapons that can be traced back to another uninvolved party?

posted by brutus161

So you're saying that people that are knowingly going to be out committing gun violence are going to do it with guns that they purchased legally and are registered to them? Or are they going to obtain weapons that can be traced back to another uninvolved party?

I didn't say any of that. I am just asking where all of the gangstas guns come from. I know they're not walking into gun shops and making purchases. But I have a hard time believing every gangsta's gun was stolen from a law-abiding citizen. Somehow these weapons are obtained legally and then supplied to the gangstas. The people involved in that never seem to be held accountable. 

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I get your points. I'm just trying to think about this - how do you prevent the criminal class from obtaining them?  I honestly have no idea. It seems largely as an expected part of life to those in an around that group. 

Who knows.  Even if it were theoretically possible to ban guns and confiscate the 400M legal guns out there....I would refer you to the war on drugs.  Not to mention the increasing capability and availability of 3D printed guns.

It seems like maybe a good number of guns get stolen from dealers, so you could crack down on that pretty severely.  But I think you'll always come back to the criminals are going to get guns, stolen or otherwise.

Decriminalize drugs sounds good, except it takes actual legalization to push the gangs out of the drug business (but then consider unintended consequences - what would the gangs do for money?).  But marijuana has shown that legalization doesn't make nearly as big of a dent in illegal drugs as hoped.  If you tax something 30-50% or whatever, then there always remains a big opportunity for a black market.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Drug companies have been forced to pay billions due to their products getting into the wrong hands. 

I don't think that is a correct description.  Drug companies paid billions for "LEGAL" prescriptions that they pushed and incentivized.  Perhaps something with addictiveness, as with tobacco, especially hiding or downplaying that risk to doctors.  But drug companies, to my knowledge, have never been liable for "getting into the wrong hands".

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

But I have a hard time believing every gangsta's gun was stolen from a law-abiding citizen.

Take it up with the FBI.  That's where the statistics come from.  I think I might have been overly conservative with 200k guns annually.  Might be twice that.  It's not an arbitrary number - it's arrived at based on reported stolen guns, and guns recovered in crimes that were reported as stolen.

It's a tiny percentage of overall gun ownership.  I don't find it hard to believe, at all, that 200k guns are stolen annually.  The average gun owner owns like 10 guns, so you can get to that number with only about 20k burglaries.

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I didn't say any of that. I am just asking where all of the gangstas guns come from. I know they're not walking into gun shops and making purchases. But I have a hard time believing every gangsta's gun was stolen from a law-abiding citizen. Somehow these weapons are obtained legally and then supplied to the gangstas. The people involved in that never seem to be held accountable. 

There seems to be a decent amount of break-ins at gun stores. There was one in Enon, Ohio where the crooks stole a truck and drove it into the building. Have seen stories about others.

posted by queencitybuckeye

There seems to be a decent amount of break-ins at gun stores. There was one in Enon, Ohio where the crooks stole a truck and drove it into the building. Have seen stories about others.

That makes sense to me. If I was in the mood to go gun-stealing, I'd get a crew and go GTA on a small gun shop. Breaking into peoples' houses puts you at the risk of running into someone like Justin, who came from Licking County, where by the age of 3, you're expected to be a crack shot with one hand while the other's holding onto a jug of moonshine.