LOCKED: Disgusted with progressives, part 2...

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Aug 27, 2018 2:06 PM
posted by O-Trap

They didn't have to see each other as "evil."

Because it would be unconscionable to vote for a racist/sexist/homophobe etc....  I'm not sure when the left went all-in on identity politics (circa 2006?), but I do remember when they used to promote the individual, rather than herd people into victimization groups.

Whether or not you agree with his politics, McCain was the sort of politician everyone claims we wish we had more of...yet he was pretty viscously attacked by BOTH right and left wingers over the years.  Politics has been turned into a football game, except the fans are much, much dumber.

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Aug 27, 2018 2:12 PM
posted by gut

Because it would be unconscionable to vote for a racist/sexist/homophobe etc....  I'm not sure when the left went all-in on identity politics (circa 2006?), but I do remember when they used to promote the individual, rather than herd people into victimization groups.

Whether or not you agree with his politics, McCain was the sort of politician everyone claims we wish we had more of...yet he was pretty viscously attacked by BOTH right and left wingers over the years.  Politics has been turned into a football game, except the fans are much, much dumber.

And more vicious.

We've bought in to the myth of Skeletor.  Maybe we watched too many cartoons or movies with this plot, but somewhere along the line, we adopted the view that politics wasn't different philosophies on how to govern, but rather the forces of good versus the forces of evil, and each party knows what side it's on.

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 100 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Aug 27, 2018 2:14 PM
posted by O-Trap

Well ... I did see a lot of that happening.  More than one even went so far as to say that our immigration policy killed that girl.

I know that they did, but it's the most hypocritical complaint ever. If every shooting you blame the NRA, you can stfu about anyone else politicizing a death. ESPECIALLY, when you openly advocate breaking laws that would stop things like that from happening (sanctuary cities, open borders, etc). 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Aug 27, 2018 2:22 PM
posted by O-Trap

We've bought in to the myth of Skeletor.  

LOL.  Like I've said, I really don't understand the need to make shit up to attack Trump personally.  First off, there's plenty to dislike already (although I think a lot has to do with the fact that his policies are working, relatively speaking, and the liberal media would rather talk about anything else).  But second, it just doesn't work.  None of this is a scandal, because everyone knew who Trump was before he even announced he was running.

Hahahah....a few days ago, Cohen was the "smoking gun".  Now his lawyer is walking things back, again.  The liberal media really is Charlie Brown trying to kick that football.

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Aug 27, 2018 2:57 PM
posted by iclfan2

I know that they did, but it's the most hypocritical complaint ever. If every shooting you blame the NRA, you can stfu about anyone else politicizing a death. ESPECIALLY, when you openly advocate breaking laws that would stop things like that from happening (sanctuary cities, open borders, etc). 

You're not wrong that it's hypocritical, but it's one of those things where both sides are almost necessarily being hypocritical.  If every crime committed by an illegal immigrant that makes the national stage gets used to blame the current immigration policy or the lack of a wall, then it doesn't seem justified to call out anybody who does the same thing with regard to shootings and gun policy.
 

posted by gut

LOL.  Like I've said, I really don't understand the need to make shit up to attack Trump personally.  First off, there's plenty to dislike already (although I think a lot has to do with the fact that his policies are working, relatively speaking, and the liberal media would rather talk about anything else).  But second, it just doesn't work.  None of this is a scandal, because everyone knew who Trump was before he even announced he was running.

Hahahah....a few days ago, Cohen was the "smoking gun".  Now his lawyer is walking things back, again.  The liberal media really is Charlie Brown trying to kick that football.

Yeah, Trump is actually sort of unique in that EVERYONE knew who he was before this whole thing began.  The man's been in the spotlight as a celebrity for decades.

For whatever reason, though (I personally think it's the rampancy of the empty self disorder and the felt need for dramatics, real or imagined), we've bought into this idea that, at least on matters of what we perceive to be important, there is a side that can be described as self-aware evil.  They're evil.  They know they're evil.  They're trying to further the cause of evil.  Hence the reference to Skeletor.

I honestly have to say I'm a little worried at where that will take us.

 

like_that 1st Team All-PWN
29,228 posts 321 reps Joined Apr 2010
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 7:40 AM

Bad: Trump was/is petty and childish as fuck handling McCain’s death.  Not sure what he thought he was going to accomplish with his approach.

Good: Trump has made the liberals and media respect the flag again 😂.

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 100 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 8:44 AM
posted by CenterBHSFan

I really, really wish that the gun-grabbers would get it through their thick skulls that guns are not going to go away. Really sick of every murder/mass shooting being turned into a national political event. There are now headlines blaming it on white supremacy, patriarchy, toxic masculinity, right wingers, etc. It's fucking awful.

Figure out how to make existing laws actually work or get rid of them if they cannot be functional or feasible. Face reality and not ideology. There are people who are fucking nuts everywhere. Unless you lock them up forever or put them down like you would a mad dog, there will be crazy people who have the potential to do this. 

The preliminary news that has come out is that the guy was from Maryland which has extreme gun laws, and had actually been hospitalized twice as a teen for mental illness. Not sure what other "sensible" gun laws would have stopped it.

iclfan2 Reppin' the 330/216/843
9,465 posts 100 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 8:45 AM
posted by like_that

Bad: Trump was/is petty and childish as fuck handling McCain’s death.  Not sure what he thought he was going to accomplish with his approach.

Good: Trump has made the liberals and media respect the flag again 😂.

The whole flag thing made no sense. He had to know what the outcome would be, which means he must want everyone to bitch about him constantly.

superman Senior Member
4,377 posts 71 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 8:48 AM
posted by iclfan2

The whole flag thing made no sense. He had to know what the outcome would be, which means he must want everyone to bitch about him constantly.

It's just misdirection.  He is distracting everyone from another issue. 

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 8:58 AM
posted by like_that

Bad: Trump was/is petty and childish as fuck handling McCain’s death.  Not sure what he thought he was going to accomplish with his approach.

Good: Trump has made the liberals and media respect the flag again 😂.

He made a official statement about it.  Does he need to do more?  The media playing politics with this is stupid and disrespectful.  Trump has not done either.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 2:04 PM
posted by like_that

Bad: Trump was/is petty and childish as fuck handling McCain’s death.  Not sure what he thought he was going to accomplish with his approach.

Good: Trump has made the liberals and media respect the flag again 😂.

LOL

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 2:06 PM

 

I did not see the liberal media headlines stating that another illegal alien has PERMANENTLY removed a child from her family.

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 2:56 PM
posted by QuakerOats

 

I did not see the liberal media headlines stating that another illegal alien has PERMANENTLY removed a child from her family.

Seriously?  I've seen it all over.  That story has literally been everywhere, it seems.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 3:10 PM

 

Oh, you mean the tamped down story of a farm worker who might be a suspect in a possible homicide…probably on page 3 or 4, so as to not interfere with real headlines, like ICE removing a poor child from the mother who accidentally came to America.

 

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Tue, Aug 28, 2018 3:41 PM

Not at all.  I've seen the article highlighted by plenty of people.

What shows up as front page news has everything to do with who you want to generalize.

If you want to generalize gun owners and advocates by trying to associate all of them with a single villain, you put the latest mass shooting front and center, and you associate the shooter with all "gun nuts" and their advocates.

If you want to generalize undocumented immigrants and advocates by trying to associate all of them with a single villain, you put the latest illegal immigrant who committed a violent crime front and center, and you associate the offender with all "illegals" and their advocates.

The logic for one is the logic for the other.  You can have perspectives on each, and that's fine, but if we go the route of using the actions of one to define the problem with the whole as a justification for one, you cannot deny attempts to do the same as a justification for the other.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Aug 29, 2018 9:42 AM

 

 

Nice.  The point is criminal illegal aliens are killing innocent U.S. citizens, and the mainstream media does its best to not to acknowledge this fact because it goes against the narrative that they and the socialists and Marxists who have taken over the democrat party want The People to hear.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 66 reps Joined Nov 2009
gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Aug 29, 2018 10:09 AM
posted by QuakerOats

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-08-29/facebook-engineers-stunning-admission-we-tear-down-posters-welcoming-trump

LOL....where do we put Zerohedge?  On par with VOX?

Which is too bad, because some of their financial/market articles are pretty good.

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Aug 29, 2018 10:22 AM
Nice.  The point is gun-toting crazies are killing innocent U.S. citizens, and the gun nuts do their best to not to acknowledge this fact because it goes against the narrative that our current gun laws are adequate for keeping people safe.

The same argument.

"The point is that A are killing innocent US citizens, and the B do their best to not acknowledge this fact because C."

I'm not saying there's not nuance to the issue.  And I'm not saying one has to espouse any particular belief on immigration policy just because they believe a certain thing on gun policy.

What I am saying is that using a tragedy, which is obviously an outlier, to try to emphasize a need for more/better/different legislation isn't a good defense for any of it.

Most immigrants ... hell, most illegal immigrants ... don't commit violent crimes.  In fact, it's in their best interest to remain inconspicuous.

Most gun owners ... hell, most gun carriers ... don't commit violent crimes.  It's in their best interest not to. 

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Wed, Aug 29, 2018 10:30 AM
posted by O-Trap

The same argument.

"The point is that A are killing innocent US citizens, and the B do their best to not acknowledge this fact because C."

I'm not saying there's not nuance to the issue.  And I'm not saying one has to espouse any particular belief on immigration policy just because they believe a certain thing on gun policy.

What I am saying is that using a tragedy, which is obviously an outlier, to try to emphasize a need for more/better/different legislation isn't a good defense for any of it.

Most immigrants ... hell, most illegal immigrants ... don't commit violent crimes.  In fact, it's in their best interest to remain inconspicuous.

Most gun owners ... hell, most gun carriers ... don't commit violent crimes.  It's in their best interest not to. 

the key word is "illegal".......regardless if they commit a crime when they get here, they commit one coming.  

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