Also, was God bored one day and created man like a board game? Why would he create man with free will if he wanted us to be perfect? Why not just make us perfect?

God rules over everything. He rules over me and you. Obey in Him and repent, and He will save you.

mtp2013;1344278 wrote:God rules over everything. He rules over me and you. Obey in Him and repent, and He will save you.

oh great, an Isadore wannabe :rolleyes:

mtp2013;1344278 wrote:God rules over everything. He rules over me and you. Obey in Him and repent, and He will save you.

Go Find Yourself.

I think it all boils down to luck. Unfortunately, those kids were at the wrong place at the wrong time Friday morning. Just like the students were at Columbine high school in 1999, people on the WTC in 2001, etc.

mtp2013;1344278 wrote:God rules over everything. He rules over me and you. Obey in Him and repent, and He will save you.

nice spam account.

rydawg5;1344149 wrote:I'm not sure where you guys are getting some of your logic and reasoning about God?

Let's start with the "God's Plan"

"God's Plan" was for us to be perfect. - When we chose to not be perfect, God's plan was for us to follow his rules. When we did not follow his commands, God felt the need for there to be another way to have what he created not perish so he sent his son so we could have forgiveness.

No where does the mocking view of "god's plan" come into the picture with this tragedy. I don't know the murderer's heart in this instance, and I'm not sure how "God's plan" turns God into Spiderman when a murderer with free-will decides to do something disgusting. Is he supposed to swoop in and break the kids arm before he pulls the trigger?

This is completely different from everything I've been taught in school. I went to Catholic schools from K-12, and then attended a Jesuit college. This was not how "God's plan" was ever described to me. I have been told since I was a young kid that God has a plan for each of us. He knows what we are going to do before we do it. He knows our thoughts, and our feelings, and our desires. So why was his plan to end the lives of these children after 7 short years? Why was his plan to make these parents feel the deepest hurt a parent could imagine?

I also always hear that God works in mysterious ways. Like when you catch a red light that is going to make you a few minutes late for work, but it actually prevents you from getting blindsided when a truck blows the red light two lights down. That's supposed to be God intervening in your life. He didn't have to break the shooter's arm. But maybe when the kid got in the car to drive to that school, the car just wouldn't start. Maybe as he was driving, some prick cop having a bad day pulls him over for going 2 mph over the speed limit and finds the weapons. God had plenty of chances to stop this from happening, and he didn't.

I saw someone say on Facebook that God needed to bring back people's faith, and this event is part of God's plan to serve as a reminder that we should put our faith in God because we never know when our time is coming. If that's the case, I'm not sure I want to associate with a God who is willing to use the deaths of 20 young kids as a way to try to bring people closer to him.

sherm03;1344413 wrote:This is completely different from everything I've been taught in school. I went to Catholic schools from K-12, and then attended a Jesuit college. This was not how "God's plan" was ever described to me. I have been told since I was a young kid that God has a plan for each of us. He knows what we are going to do before we do it. He knows our thoughts, and our feelings, and our desires. So why was his plan to end the lives of these children after 7 short years? Why was his plan to make these parents feel the deepest hurt a parent could imagine?

I also always hear that God works in mysterious ways. Like when you catch a red light that is going to make you a few minutes late for work, but it actually prevents you from getting blindsided when a truck blows the red light two lights down. That's supposed to be God intervening in your life. He didn't have to break the shooter's arm. But maybe when the kid got in the car to drive to that school, the car just wouldn't start. Maybe as he was driving, some prick cop having a bad day pulls him over for going 2 mph over the speed limit and finds the weapons. God had plenty of chances to stop this from happening, and he didn't.

I saw someone say on Facebook that God needed to bring back people's faith, and this event is part of God's plan to serve as a reminder that we should put our faith in God because we never know when our time is coming. If that's the case, I'm not sure I want to associate with a God who is willing to use the deaths of 20 young kids as a way to try to bring people closer to him.

What about the role of Satan. Does Satan not have any influence in this tragedy. A mass murder has happened and people want to blame God , not a single person has mentioned Satan?

Fuck this thread.

gport_tennis;1344424 wrote:What about the role of Satan. Does Satan not have any influence in this tragedy. A mass murder has happened and people want to blame God , not a single person has mentioned Satan?

I can understand that viewpoint. But I still disagree with it. If you believe in the Christian view of God and Satan, then you would believe that Satan is a fallen angel. He does not have more power than God. So if God really knows what we are going to do before we do it, and knows our thoughts...then God would know that Satan is going to tempt someone and could intervene if he wanted to.

So the question would come back to "why would God let something this tragic happen?" Even if Satan had tempted the shooter, God still could have intervened and prevented it. So who is worse? The one who coaxed the kid into deciding to do it? Or the one who knew it was going to happen and let it happen?

sherm03;1344472 wrote:I can understand that viewpoint. But I still disagree with it. If you believe in the Christian view of God and Satan, then you would believe that Satan is a fallen angel. He does not have more power than God. So if God really knows what we are going to do before we do it, and knows our thoughts...then God would know that Satan is going to tempt someone and could intervene if he wanted to.

So the question would come back to "why would God let something this tragic happen?" Even if Satan had tempted the shooter, God still could have intervened and prevented it. So who is worse? The one who coaxed the kid into deciding to do it? Or the one who knew it was going to happen and let it happen?

Its my belief that a war is going on between 2 forces, God and Satan. God has said he will win this war(the bible), but Satan also believes he himself will win this war and continues to build his army. Satan has the power to win battles like this massacre. Satan uses events like this to push us further from god and to build his army.

gport_tennis;1344500 wrote:Its my belief that a war is going on between 2 forces, God and Satan. God has said he will win this war(the bible), but Satan also believes he himself will win this war and continues to build his army. Satan has the power to win battles like this massacre. Satan uses events like this to push us further from god and to build his army.

If God is all-knowing, then he knows that he would win this war. Satan, being a fallen angel, would know that God is all-knowing...and would realize that he can't win the war because God has already said that he won't. So he would basically just be doing things just to fuck shit up, not to build an army to fight a war that he can't win.

And again, God would have the power to stop Satan from building his army by intervening and keeping events like this from happening. He could end the war before it even started by not allowing events like this to happen, and therefore completely stopping Satan from assembling an army.

sherm03;1344509 wrote:If God is all-knowing, then he knows that he would win this war. Satan, being a fallen angel, would know that God is all-knowing...and would realize that he can't win the war because God has already said that he won't. So he would basically just be doing things just to **** **** up, not to build an army to fight a war that he can't win.

And again, God would have the power to stop Satan from building his army by intervening and keeping events like this from happening. He could end the war before it even started by not allowing events like this to happen, and therefore completely stopping Satan from assembling an army.

Its my believe that Satan believes he is better and more powerful than God. So that's why he does what he does. He wants the power that god has and refuses to believe that he is fighting a lost cause.

Do you believe that God is jealous?

gport_tennis;1344520 wrote:Its my believe that Satan believes he is better and more powerful than God. So that's why he does what he does. He wants the power that god has and refuses to believe that he is fighting a lost cause.

Do you believe that God is jealous?

I don't even know if I believe that there is a God anymore. Growing up, I found that the God I learned about could very well be jealous. In many cases, God was vengeful, angry, vain, and spiteful. So jealous wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

And you make a good point about Satan. But at the end of the day, God is supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful, and would be able to stop events like this from happening. It's even worse to me if God allows humans to be used in his battle with Satan. Why would he allow those lives to be sacrificed knowing that it would turn people away from him?

sherm03;1344540 wrote:I don't even know if I believe that there is a God anymore. Growing up, I found that the God I learned about could very well be jealous. In many cases, God was vengeful, angry, vain, and spiteful. So jealous wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility.

And you make a good point about Satan. But at the end of the day, God is supposed to be all-knowing and all-powerful, and would be able to stop events like this from happening. It's even worse to me if God allows humans to be used in his battle with Satan. Why would he allow those lives to be sacrificed knowing that it would turn people away from him?

It is not God's job to serve us, it is our job to serve him. We often fail in this aspect and "bad" things can happen as a result.

gport_tennis;1344613 wrote:It is not God's job to serve us, it is our job to serve him. We often fail in this aspect and "bad" things can happen as a result.

I'm not talking about God serving his creations. I'm talking about God protecting them. Let's look at this a different way. In the Bible, God is often referred to as the shepherd, and we are his flock. He is supposed to look after his flock and protect them. If a wolf is going to kill several of the flock, and the shepherd knows that it's going to happen, the shepherd should step in and prevent it to save the flock.

sherm03;1344639 wrote:I'm not talking about God serving his creations. I'm talking about God protecting them. Let's look at this a different way. In the Bible, God is often referred to as the shepherd, and we are his flock. He is supposed to look after his flock and protect them. If a wolf is going to kill several of the flock, and the shepherd knows that it's going to happen, the shepherd should step in and prevent it to save the flock.

A flock of sheep follows its master. If a few sheep run off the master will do his best to try and save them. Sometimes the flock astray get saved, some times the stray getting eaten by wolves. It sucks but its true.

God has given us free will. If we used our free will to obey and serve him to the fullest at all times, stuff like this would not happen. We have allowed this free will to corrupt our purpose on earth and as a result evil now exists in our world.

gport_tennis;1344613 wrote:It is not God's job to serve us, it is our job to serve him. We often fail in this aspect and "bad" things can happen as a result.

Best. Post. Ever. Well done sir. :thumbup:

I'm not sure I believe in God after this but I'm definitely starting to consider the existence of Satan.

Tiernan;1344874 wrote:I'm not sure I believe in God after this but I'm definitely starting to consider the existence of Satan.

My wife works for a place that finds homes for abused kids. Nothing as horrific as this, but I hear of sick and vile things that happens to kids everyday that many could not believe. Curious as to why this one instance would change your faith? Just wondering.

The rationalizations in this thread are pretty hilarious. Talk about getting mentally handicapped people some help; you can start with the religious.

gport_tennis;1344613 wrote:It is not God's job to serve us, it is our job to serve him. We often fail in this aspect and "bad" things can happen as a result.

That brings up another point... even if you buy into the god theory, why would anybody serve a god with a viewpoint that's so narcissistic, insecure, and downright vindictive? It's basically "praise me or fuck you for eternity".

Mulva;1345093 wrote:That brings up another point... even if you buy into the god theory, why would anybody serve a god with a viewpoint that's so narcissistic, insecure, and downright vindictive? It's basically "praise me or **** you for eternity".

Those are human conditions. One need not praise God to be with Him for eternity but rather simply believe that Christ was His Son the Messiah....that usually leads to His praise, however.

Nothing in my life has ever happened that made me believe in god, nothing. All religions have teachings, rules, and guidelines and I'm pretty sure killing a fellow man isn't one of them, yet wars are fought and millions of innocent people die because of religion. Where was god during the holocaust? No where. Where is god in the Sudan? No where. Where was god during Saddams killings of the Kurds? No where. Saying you have free will is bullshit, religion isn't free will. Commandments are the opposite of free will!

If I believe in god and I break a commandment, why am I not punished? Lets here your response of how I have to die first to be punished lol.

Shut this thread down. This was posted just to stir the pot.