Con_Alma;1343701 wrote:Of course God is worthy of worship by morally corrupt persons. There is no one perfectly pure from a morality perspective.

the same guy who creates gays then tells them they are wrong? yeah, morality at it's finest.

DeyDurkie5;1343704 wrote:the same guy who creates gays then tells them they are wrong? yeah, morality at it's finest.

????

God tells gays they are wrong? I have never read that anywhere in the Holy Scripture other than if they are included in the coments that relate to all people. All people are incapable of being without sin.

DeyDurkie5;1343702 wrote:You believe god has a plan..yes?

I believe he has already enacted His "plan", yes.

Con_Alma;1343709 wrote:I believe he has already enacted His "plan", yes.

Great plan:rolleyes:

Con_Alma;1343706 wrote:????

God tells gays they are wrong? I have never read that anywhere in the Holy Scripture other than if they are included in the coments that relate to all people. All people are incapable of being without sin.

So let's recap.

God creates gays.
Gays are wrong if they act on their urges.
Gays are cool if they don't.
God's plan has been "enacted"
Innocent children die.
Great plan. :rolleyes:

DeyDurkie5;1343710 wrote:Great plan:rolleyes:

It can be a great plan if you choose for it to be.

DeyDurkie5;1343712 wrote:So let's recap.

God creates gays.
Gays are wrong if they act on their urges.
Gays are cool if they don't.
God's plan has been "enacted"
Innocent children die.
Great plan. :rolleyes:

Your focus on the mortal is very telling as it relates to your evaluation of the" plan".

Con_Alma;1343701 wrote:Of course God is worthy of worship by morally corrupt persons. There is no one perfectly pure from a morality perspective.

If allowing the murdering of innocent children when you have the power to stop it is morally wrong...and most would consider it to be so...God has no greater moral standing than the average morally corrupt human.

Con_Alma;1343718 wrote:Your focus on the mortal is very telling as it relates to your evaluation of the" plan".

ahh so let's not focus on when people are actually alive, but when people die and we all join the god man in heaven. Great logic there.

BoatShoes;1343719 wrote:If allowing the murdering of innocent children when you have the power to stop it is morally wrong...and most would consider it to be so...God has no greater moral standing than the average morally corrupt human.

suggesting that the Omnipotent should be evaluated according to a human something that does or does not exist in a human is an indication of a lack of appreciation between the differences between God and human.

DeyDurkie5;1343725 wrote:ahh so let's not focus on when people are actually alive, but when people die and we all join the god man in heaven. Great logic there.

If that's what you choose so be it. I choose to focus on my time "alive" as a preparation for when I am physically dead.

[h=5]"You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world." - 1 John 4:4[/h]

Con_Alma;1343728 wrote:suggesting that the Omnipotent should be evaluated according to a human something that does or does not exist in a human is an indication of a lack of appreciation between the differences between God and human.

If perfect morality is a characteristic of omnipotence...and it is....and allowing children to be murdered when you have the power to do so...as an omnipotent being must....is immoral....as it seems to be.....God cannot be Omnibenevolent....a crushing blow against God just like his not having the power to stop it (and consequently not making him Omnipotent) would be.

BoatShoes;1343752 wrote:If perfect morality is a characteristic of omnipotence...and it is....

I disagree especially when considering that morality is a product of man himself by the use of the gifts afforded by God.

pmoney25;1343281 wrote:I am always confused when people ask that question. If God allowed humans free will and then prevented things from happening. What would the point of free will be?

When good things happen, people praise God. When bad things happen, people blame people. I mean I could write books on the hypocrisy and intellectual infancy of belief in a religious system, but mostly I don't want to read o-trap's books which will be 399x as long.

Con_Alma;1343742 wrote:"You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world." - 1 John 4:4

"believe in albus dumbledore, oh dear children, and your soul will be free"
-harry potter page 23

I think God appreciates irony.

I believe in god and Satan. Can not have one without the other.

Satan's mission is to separate us from God anyway possible, unfortunately this is 1 of those ways

Con_Alma;1343762 wrote:I disagree especially when considering that morality is a product of man himself by the use of the gifts afforded by God.

So, I take it you're a Christian then yes? If morality is a human product then whatever God does or allows is "right"...allowing the murder of children is not wrong for God although it would be wrong for us to allow murder when we had the power to stop it....we know it would be wrong for us because he has commanded it to be so in His Word.

If, morality then is a human creation, why then, did he select the moral commands he did? Is it wrong to murder because it's inherently wrong or is it wrong because God says so....if the second is true....why did he decide that murder is wrong?

"God" does not exist.

If he did, he wouldn't let children die of cancer or something like this.

smh

DeyDurkie5;1343809 wrote:"believe in albus dumbledore, oh dear children, and your soul will be free"
-harry potter page 23

Do you believe in "albus"?

BoatShoes;1343975 wrote:So, I take it you're a Christian then yes? If morality is a human product then whatever God does or allows is "right"...allowing the murder of children is not wrong for God although it would be wrong for us to allow murder when we had the power to stop it....we know it would be wrong for us because he has commanded it to be so in His Word.

If, morality then is a human creation, why then, did he select the moral commands he did? Is it wrong to murder because it's inherently wrong or is it wrong because God says so....if the second is true....why did he decide that murder is wrong?

I am a Christian. Whatever God "allows" isn't necessarily "right" according to humans....especially those that don't believe in God. It may or may not be "right" to them.

It's wrong to murder because God commanded as much. If you do not believe in God then the society determines what is wrong and what isn't.

I'm not sure where you guys are getting some of your logic and reasoning about God?

Let's start with the "God's Plan"

"God's Plan" was for us to be perfect. - When we chose to not be perfect, God's plan was for us to follow his rules. When we did not follow his commands, God felt the need for there to be another way to have what he created not perish so he sent his son so we could have forgiveness.

No where does the mocking view of "god's plan" come into the picture with this tragedy. I don't know the murderer's heart in this instance, and I'm not sure how "God's plan" turns God into Spiderman when a murderer with free-will decides to do something disgusting. Is he supposed to swoop in and break the kids arm before he pulls the trigger?

Then we start going in to "why did God create Gays" As if he is somehow being a hypocrite by producing someone predisposed to want to "sin" in a way he doesn't want them to - how is this any different than God creating men who lust after women? In God's eyes, that is adultry.

Doesn't God create you in a way where you have temptation for sin? If you are tempted (and or) partake in sex outside of marriage (with a woman, man, goat, bear, etc) - you still are doing a disgusting act in God's eyes.

The book of Leviticus (where most of the ignorant rants from Bible thumpers originate from) is about a specific group of people for a certain time that were not us. The Old testament (the jewish faith) was in regards for them, their culture (hence the odd number of things that were "abominations" many things you think would be no big deal at all) - these books were for certain messages for certain people.

I don't know all the answers but I do know that as you build your relationship with God, you are more apt to think things through before you make mistakes, you become MORE humbled by recognizing how imperfect you are. That you would be destined for hell, because you were born sin, if you didn't know the greatness of God.

rydawg5;1344149 wrote:I'm not sure where you guys are getting some of your logic and reasoning about God?

Let's start with the "God's Plan"

"God's Plan" was for us to be perfect. - When we chose to not be perfect, God's plan was for us to follow his rules. When we did not follow his commands, God felt the need for there to be another way to have what he created not perish so he sent his son so we could have forgiveness.

No where does the mocking view of "god's plan" come into the picture with this tragedy. I don't know the murderer's heart in this instance, and I'm not sure how "God's plan" turns God into Spiderman when a murderer with free-will decides to do something disgusting. Is he supposed to swoop in and break the kids arm before he pulls the trigger?

Then God cannot be given credit when good things happen. How can he heal an illness but not stop a shooting? Or how can we praise God when little Johnny didn't die in a car accident, but God can't stop a trigger being pulled?