Con_Alma;1214030 wrote:Not with me nor the person with whom this first banter started about. It simply is pushing them further away fro your "hope"ful wish.

hardly, they are just being told some truths. That they would resist the truth is not a surprise and not a reason to stop.

isadore;1214055 wrote:hardly, they are just being told some truths. That they would resist the truth is not a surprise and not a reason to stop.

They aren't resisting they are going deeper into the things you "hope" against. I have never suggested you stop nor ave any reason to "wish" that you do.

O-Trap;1214026 wrote:First, there is an irony even you can appreciate with your misspelling of "typos."

Second, I find it odd to point out errors in punctuation, given your chronic lack of capitalization. I'm not at all saying the lack of capitalization, so please don't misunderstand. I'm merely saying that the result of it, in light of you pointing at someone's typographical errors, seems hypocritical.

Third, maybe you've read more than I have, but I don't see greed in his post. Where has he shown greed? Selfishness ... eh ... I can't really see that either. Bigotry seems absurdly silly.

As for a violent personality, that makes a little more sense, given his militant replies, but that could also be perceived as just an intense personality.

Redemption is necessary for all of us, but I strongly suggest that we have enough that needs redeemed already to be chasing those vices which, by either luck or grace, have not manifest themselves in our lives.

Gosh a ruddies what is the very first clause I write,

isadore wrote:we all make typoes (sic) in our messages

pretty much eliminating any hypocrisy. But the lack of commas in his statement make it hard to understand. As in the example of the phrase from the book title, Eats shoots & leaves or Eats, shoots & leaves. Quite a different meaning.
People can be judged by who they support, with whom they ally. If you hang with the greedy, selfish and bigots expect the label. His violent personality is obvious. Hopefully he can be redeemed from it.
I realize that you are his apologist and must rationalize his obvious faults.
Vices not manifested in lives, you have to be kidding.
The manifestation of greed, selfishness and bigotry are obvious to any but the willingly blind.

Con_Alma;1214061 wrote:They aren't resisting they are going deeper into the things you "hope" against. I have never suggested you stop nor ave any reason to "wish" that you do.

when you confront bigots often they become more verbally and physically violent. That is not a reason to allow them to continue with their beliefs and behaviors.

isadore;1214068 wrote:when you confront bigots often they become more verbally and physically violent. That is not a reason to allow them to continue with their beliefs and behaviors.

Allow? Lol. It is not you who either permit or keep them from any actions.

Con_Alma;1214072 wrote:Allow? Lol. It is not you who either permit or keep them from any actions.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing." paraphrase edmund burke. if you allow without protest you are an accomplice.

isadore;1214079 wrote:"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good people do nothing." paraphrase edmund burke. if you allow without protest you are an accomplice.

You don't allow because you don't have the authority to do so...even if you wanted to. You don't keep them them their actions because you can't.

isadore;1214063 wrote:pretty much eliminating any hypocrisy.

Not inasmuch as you suggest that it detracts from his message. It wasn't that difficult to understand him.

isadore;1214063 wrote:But the lack of commas in his statement make it hard to understand.

I didn't think so.

isadore;1214063 wrote:As in the example of the phrase from the book title, Eats shoots & leaves or Eats, shoots & leaves. Quite a different meaning.

Of course. I'm certainly not saying punctuation doesn't help. It's why I try to use it accurately.

isadore;1214063 wrote:People can be judged by who they support, with whom they ally.

Not according to logical law. In fact, it's a fallacy to do so, but go on.

isadore;1214063 wrote:If you hang with the greedy, selfish and bigots expect the label.

From illogical, small-minded people, sure. Jesus spent considerable time with harlots and thieves, advocating for them in some cases, and he did receive a negative stigmas as a result, but they were illogical and not true.

isadore;1214063 wrote:His violent personality is obvious. Hopefully he can be redeemed from it.

"It's obvious," is a logical fallacy (appeal to the majority or appeal to self-evidence), the defense for which truthfully is summed up by, "This is true because it's true, and it's obviously." There is zero logical framework.

isadore;1214063 wrote: I realize that you are his apologist and must rationalize his obvious faults.

I don't rationalize what I have no logical reason to believe exists. You've offered no evidence of the three accusations you made. I'm open to changing my view, should you actually provide a logical reason to do so.

isadore;1214063 wrote: Vices not manifested in lives, you have to be kidding.
The manifestation of greed, selfishness and bigotry are obvious to any but the willingly blind.

Of a people group as a whole, possibly. However, if you will refer to an individual with accusations, the burden of proof falls on you. I'm merely asking you to lay out said proof. "It's obvious to any but the willingly blind," is again a fallacy ... actually two fallacies ... the appeal to self-evidence and ad hominem.

Simply provide the evidence. I'm on board if you can.

Con_Alma;1214082 wrote:You don't allow because you don't have the authority to do so...even if you wanted to. You don't keep them them their actions because you can't.

but you can point out their greed, selfishness and bigotry and not just by your silence grant them your seeming tacit approval. you do not let their words and actions go by without comment, that is allowing evil to triumph.

isadore;1214086 wrote:but you can point out their greed, selfishness and bigotry and not just by your silence grant them your seeming tacit approval. you do not let their words and actions go by without comment, that is allowing evil to triumph.

You have no ability to keep from nor promote evil's triumph. Your words will do neither. Pointing out such activities does nothing more than pointing them out.

O-Trap;1214085 wrote:Not inasmuch as you suggest that it detracts from his message. It wasn't that difficult to understand him.



I didn't think so.



Of course. I'm certainly not saying punctuation doesn't help. It's why I try to use it accurately.



Not according to logical law. In fact, it's a fallacy to do so, but go on.



From illogical, small-minded people, sure. Jesus spent considerable time with harlots and thieves, advocating for them in some cases, and he did receive a negative stigmas as a result, but they were illogical and not true.



"It's obvious," is a logical fallacy (appeal to the majority or appeal to self-evidence), the defense for which truthfully is summed up by, "This is true because it's true, and it's obviously." There is zero logical framework.



I don't rationalize what I have no logical reason to believe exists. You've offered no evidence of the three accusations you made. I'm open to changing my view, should you actually provide a logical reason to do so.



Of a people group as a whole, possibly. However, if you will refer to an individual with accusations, the burden of proof falls on you. I'm merely asking you to lay out said proof. "It's obvious to any but the willingly blind," is again a fallacy ... actually two fallacies ... the appeal to self-evidence and ad hominem.

Simply provide the evidence. I'm on board if you can.

Well gosh a ruddies lets look at his statement

hijacker wrote: im being a better human being by trolling someone who condescends others you are againt selfishness green and bigoted but you show so much pride which as you know is a deadly sin [?QUOTE] I find the statement hard to understand. Obviously you have greater tools of comprehension, as you have often mentioned.
Now according to logical law if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and hangs around with a bunch of fucking ducks then its probably a duck.
Well O Jesus did hang around with harlots and thieves. Number one I am not Jesus nor claim to be even his faint reflection. You notice with harlots he told them to go an sin no more. One of his thieves crucified with him showed redemption and was saved.
As to mr, hacker, his bigotry can be shown in the use of mental retardation as a charge. And his threats show the violence of his personality.
As his previous post show he has a long time admiration and relationship with you. So it is quite understandable you would be his apologist.

O-trap wrote:
Of a people group as a whole, possibly.

?
Anyone who has spent much time at this website, and participated in discussions in the serious business, politics and basement forum has innumerable examples of bigotry, selfishness and greed. To not see these examples one must be either unbelievably obtuse or willingly blind. I do not think you are unbelievably obtuse. But I could be wrong.

Con_Alma;1214089 wrote:You have no ability to keep from nor promote evil's triumph. Your words will do neither. Pointing out such activities does nothing more than pointing them out.

that is your opinion. to which you have a right, no matter how wrong it is.

isadore;1214133 wrote: I find the statement hard to understand. Obviously you have greater tools of comprehension, as you have often mentioned.

Citation where I have boasted having greater tools of comprehension? Sources?

isadore;1214133 wrote:Now according to logical law if it quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck and hangs around with a bunch of fucking ducks then its probably a duck.

Actually, that's not a logical principle. One could make the case that it is a principle of probability, but then I again ask: Where did he walk like a bigot, talk with selfishness, or demonstrate that he's "hanging around" the greedy?

And such a shame that you feel you have to use such language. Hopefully you can be redeemed.

isadore;1214133 wrote: Well O Jesus did hang around with harlots and thieves. Number one I am not Jesus nor claim to be even his faint reflection.

Should we not aspire to be?

isadore;1214133 wrote:You notice with harlots he told them to go an sin no more.

On a couple occasions, he is indeed recorded as saying something to that effect. However, it would appear that very little of his time with them was spent overtly trying to change their actions, or the religious leaders would have had little to criticize.

isadore;1214133 wrote:As to mr, hacker, his bigotry can be shown in the use of mental retardation as a charge.

How so? The pot shot appeared to be toward you, and didn't indicate a negative view of a people group.

isadore;1214133 wrote:And his threats show the violence of his personality.

Threats? What did he threaten to do?

isadore;1214133 wrote:As his previous post show he has a long time admiration and relationship with you. So it is quite understandable you would be his apologist.

Not his apologist at all. Just not calling something a spade unless it shows that it is one. You seem to err on the side of condemnation, as you assume vices that have not manifest themselves, at least that I've seen. Again, this is why I ask for your fulfillment of the burden of proof.

isadore;1214133 wrote: Anyone who has spent much time at this website, and participated in discussions in the serious business, politics and basement forum has innumerable examples of bigotry, selfishness and greed.

"Innumerable" might or might not be true. Interesting that you assume it to be.

As for whether or not there are, and have been, examples? Sure there are, and have. But does that suggest that if anyone displays it, all display it? If so, then it doesn't exclude yourself.

isadore;1214133 wrote:To not see these examples one must be either unbelievably obtuse or willingly blind. I do not think you are unbelievably obtuse. But I could be wrong.

Oh not at all. I've seen them. Just not from everyone you're accusing.

But as before, if you see something that isn't there, you are free to pursue it. This is a country where that is your right. Enjoy your journey. I hope you find redemption in it.

Cheers!

isadore;1214136 wrote:that is your opinion. to which you have a right, no matter how wrong it is.

Of course it's my "opinion". Whose else would it be? Although your "opinion" regarding the effect you believe you will have is one tht is general in nature. I have given you the reasons my opinion is different than yours and that is the negative influence the posters you are directing your "hope" towards have displayed.

Con_Alma;1214164 wrote:Of course it's my "opinion". Whose else would it be? Although your "opinion" regarding the effect you believe you will have is one tht is general in nature. I have given you the reasons my opinion is different than yours and that is the negative influence the posters you are directing your "hope" towards have displayed.

oh thank you, i value your condescension. but I have an understanding of historical reaction to attempts to better the human condition. And the initial strong negative reaction was expected. Most significant effort to better our lives are opposed by those mired in greed, selfishness and bigotry. It is no reason to stop.

I'll be honest. I can't even read Con_Alma's and isadore's post anymore. This thread is the worst.

isadore;1214179 wrote:oh thank you, i value your condescension. but I have an understanding of historical reaction to attempts to better the human condition. And the initial strong negative reaction was expected. Most significant effort to better our lives are opposed by those mired in greed, selfishness and bigotry. It is no reason to stop.

???

I haven't seen the reaction as negative at all but rather an appropriate response to the convictions held by those you "hope"for. It's also important to again state, I have not suggested you stop nor will I. There's no reason to.

Your historical references are general and are not reflective of current culture and the current make-up of those you are "hope"ing for.

Con_Alma;1214164 wrote:Of course it's my "opinion". Whose else would it be? Although your "opinion" regarding the effect you believe you will have is one tht is general in nature. I have given you the reasons my opinion is different than yours and that is the negative influence the posters you are directing your "hope" towards have displayed.

From the killer dog thread,

O trap wrote: Your reading comprehension is off.
Don't take offense, but your reading comprehension wasn't so good when reading my post if you think I said that
Again, your struggles with reading comprehension rear their ugly heads

I appreciate your efforts as the ultimate judge of grammar, syntax and reading comprehension. What I do realize is, at least occasionally, to use a comma. Your buddy hacker doesn’t.
But I continue my efforts with my limited tools in the service of good. Hopefully you will have your road to Damascus moment and come to the side of the good.

To try mirror Jesus is admirable, to claim to be his reflection is sacrilege. I do not make either claim. My small efforts are to help redeem some folks lost in greed, selfishness and bigotry while they are on earth.
When he tells a harlot to go and sin no more and when he offers a thief who defends him a place in heaven, that is pretty definite.
Your buddy the hacker selects his companions, those he supports and by that choice so he is identified.
Gosh a ruddies how forgiving you are of his use of mental retardation as an insult. “see no evil” works for you. No wonder you can find no examples of violence and bigotry in his statements.
Gosh anyone who has posted 6433 time so far on this site and has not seen innumerable examples of greed, selfishness and bigotry among the 1.2 million posts definitely falls into the “see no evil” category.

sleeper;1214185 wrote:I'll be honest. I can't even read Con_Alma's and isadore's post anymore. This thread is the worst.

and thank you for your contribution to it.

isadore;1214205 wrote:From the killer dog thread,...

Yes of the many, many examples of opposite direction than the desired "hope" behavior seeks, I can see how you are not seeing the, not only continuation of such posts, but the furthering of them. The killer dog thread is but one example that the "hope" isn't and won't change those who don't choose to.

Con_Alma;1214189 wrote:???

I haven't seen the reaction as negative at all but rather an appropriate response to the convictions held by those you "hope"for. It's also important to again state, I have not suggested you stop nor will I. There's no reason to.

Your historical references are general and are not reflective of current culture and the current make-up of those you are "hope"ing for.

and your appropriate response to an effort to reduce bigotry, greed and selfishness is condescension and sophistry. My historical references have had specificity to the struggle for black rights in the South and for gay rights. Each effort aroused increased vitrol and violence from those inflicted with bigotry. We now live in the later part of those struggles, but not their end. If you can not see innummerable examples of selfish, greed and bigotry on the serious business, politics and basement threads you should join O-trap in the "see no evil" club.

isadore;1214214 wrote:and your appropriate response to an effort to reduce bigotry, greed and selfishness is condescension and sophistry. My historical references have had specificity to the struggle for black rights in the South and for gay rights. Each effort aroused increased vitrol and violence from those inflicted with bigotry. We now live in the later part of those struggles, but not their end. If you can not see innummerable examples of selfish, greed and bigotry on the serious business, politics and basement threads you should join O-trap in the "see no evil" club.

Mt response is to share my observations that your effort of reducing said things are not actually doing so but rather the opposite has occured.

Why would I join the "see no evil club" when I can and have seen evil?

The difference is that I recognise where and when anappropriate injection might provide benefit. You not only don't but choose to shotgun canned, repetitive responses and feel good about it no matter the actual outcome. If this is about you personally making yoursef feel good about your actions, Bravo Zulu....otherwise....well, the results speak for themselves.

Con_Alma;1214210 wrote:Yes of the many, many examples of opposite direction than the desired "hope" behavior seeks, I can see how you are not seeing the, not only continuation of such posts, but the furthering of them. The killer dog thread is but one example that the "hope" isn't and won't change those who don't choose to.

ah ye of little faith. With those committed to the selfish act of owning or defending ownership of a killer dog, the way to enlightment is slow. As the self centered nature of keeping these dogs dawns on them, as they finally realize the unneeded threat their family and neighbors. Then they may change. But the fact that they would make the choice to have or defend having that dog, shows how twisted they are in that aspect of their lives. For that reason it is a slow go.

isadore;1214223 wrote:ah ye of little faith. With those committed to the selfish act of owning or defending ownership of a killer dog, the way to enlightment is slow. As the self centered nature of keeping these dogs dawns on them, as they finally realize the unneeded threat their family and neighbors. Then they may change. But the fact that they would make the choice to have or defend having that dog, shows how twisted they are in that aspect of their lives. For that reason it is a slow go.

There's no evidence anywhere that it's a slow go but in fact quite the opposite. "Hope" won't change that...only the respective individual and their choices...but your feelings of accomplishment may continue to be significant!

Con_Alma;1214220 wrote:Mt response is to share my observations that your effort of reducing said things are not actually doing so but rather the opposite has occured.

Why would I join the "see no evil club" when I can and have seen evil?

The difference is that I recognise where and when anappropriate injection might provide benefit. You not only don't but choose to shotgun canned, repetitive responses and feel good about it no matter the actual outcome. If this is about you personally making yoursef feel good about your actions, Bravo Zulu....otherwise....well, the results speak for themselves.

Appropriate injection, now that is rich. Greed, selfishness and bigotry should not be supported or ignored.
Oh may be it was not appropriate to stand up for the poor at that time. And that it was not appropriate to support gay marriage in that forum or oppose racism on that thread. We must always be appropriate. We would not want to give offense to the greedy, hurting the feeling of the racists or insult a homophobe. Well that is your way, not mine.