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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 8:53pm
It may not happen without others help. I've never disputed that. It won't happen with only that help. Hope for redemption will change nothing. There's no indication that such hope will have no other impact when repeated and offered in the manner that you do to people than the result we see today which is a continuatuion with greater fervor.isadore;1214537 wrote:And for many people it won’t happen without the help and even intervention of others You find people at this site overflowing with selfishness, greed and bigotry. One possible avenue to lead them toward redemption is by me pointing out examples of their abhorrent beliefs and then suggesting that redemption is possible. Given their deep commitment to the listed vices, the process will be long and difficult. But there is hope for the long term success in redeeming some of the sites reprobates.
In addition, I wouldn't be so quick to come to the conclusion that what you are offering is truly help.
Hope changes nothing.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 8:57pm
what a bigoted attitude toward a person, but you can still be redeemed.rmolin73;1214538 wrote:Al thats probably because where I'm from isadore is the animal.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:09pm
And for many people it won’t happen without the help and even intervention of others You find people at this site overflowing with selfishness, greed and bigotry. One possible avenue to lead them toward redemption is by me pointing out examples of their abhorrent beliefs and then suggesting that redemption is possible. Given their deep commitment to the listed vices, the process will be long and difficult. But there is hope for the long term success in redeeming some of the sites reprobates.isadore;1214537 wrote:And for many people it won’t happen without the help and even intervention of others You find people at this site overflowing with selfishness, greed and bigotry. One possible avenue to lead them toward redemption is by me pointing out examples of their abhorrent beliefs and then suggesting that redemption is possible. Given their deep commitment to the listed vices, the process will be long and difficult. But there is hope for the long term success in redeeming some of the sites reprobates.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:15pm
Hope is the basis for any change and that hope can be supplied to many by others. When it is offered to the most blighted with vice then there should be the expectation of extreme resistance. The process will be long and difficult but the goal is worthwhile.Con_Alma;1214543 wrote:It may not happen without others help. I've never disputed that. It won't happen with only that help. Hope for redemption will change nothing. There's no indication that such hope will have no other impact when repeated and offered in the manner that you do to people than the result we see today which is a continuatuion with greater fervor.
In addition, I wouldn't be so quick to come to the conclusion that what you are offering is truly help.
Hope changes nothing.
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Jun 28, 2012 9:18pm
Care to elaborate on how that is a bigoted attitude towards you? I'll be waiting.isadore;1214547 wrote:what a bigoted attitude toward a person, but you can still be redeemed.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:18pm
There are many mental professionals that would dispute your claim that hope is the basis for all change. There are many things that can trigger change. Hope from another person I don't believe is one of them.isadore;1214575 wrote:Hope is the basis for any change and that hope can be supplied to many by others. When it is offered to the most blighted with vice then there should be the expectation of extreme resistance. The process will be long and difficult but the goal is worthwhile.
Offering hope does nothing.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:24pm
in your opinion. there are many factors that can contribute to change but hope of better life should not be dismissed. And that view can be given to them by another.Con_Alma;1214581 wrote:There are many mental professionals that would dispute your claim that hope is the basis for all change. There are many things that can trigger change. Hope from another person I don't believe is one of them.
Offering hope does nothing.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:28pm
It's not my opinion. There are significant volumes of papers and articles on the internet discussing the initiator of change in a person. You can offer all you want. It is the person them self that determines if there will be change.isadore;1214597 wrote:in your opinion. there are many factors that can contribute to change but hope of better life should not be dismissed. And that view can be given to them by another.
Hope is not the basis of all change in a person.
Hope for another's redemption does nothing.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:28pm
gosh okrmolin73;1214580 wrote:Care to elaborate on how that is a bigoted attitude towards you? I'll be waiting.
throughout history when bigots have attacked individuals or groups they have diminished them to be animals. Racists made blacks equivalent to apes, nazis made jews equivalent to rats. you are a practitoner of that same type of bigotry.rmolin73 wrote:where I'm from isadore is the animal.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:31pm
the person often does not know about what change is needed or how to change until it is supplied by another. hope from another can initiate the process and the hopes of another can help a person through the process.Con_Alma;1214602 wrote:You can offer all you want. It is the person them self that determines if there will be change.
Hope is not the basis of all change in a person.
Hope for another's redemption does nothing.
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Jun 28, 2012 9:33pm
Hahahahahaha someone let this self absorbed clown in on a few things.isadore;1214603 wrote:gosh ok
throughout history when bigots have attacked individuals or groups they have diminished them to be animals. Racists made blacks equivalent to apes, nazis made jews equivalent to rats. you are a practitoner of that same type of bigotry.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:34pm
I repeat, I have never disputed what the addition of a person's assistance can do.isadore;1214609 wrote:the person often does not know about what change is needed or how to change until it is supplied by another. hope from another can initiate the process and the hopes of another can help a person through the process.
I am commenting on the definitives that you offer that are simply inaccurate.
Hope is not the basis for all change.
Hoping for the redemption of another changes nothing.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:35pm
I think he just might have completely missed that point regarding the animal.rmolin73;1214613 wrote:Hahahahahaha someone let this self absorbed clown in on a few things.
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Jun 28, 2012 9:38pm
Completely. A bigot thats a first for me.Con_Alma;1214619 wrote:I think he just might have completely missed that point regarding the animal.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:41pm
gosh a ruddies it makes no difference the race of the practitioner if he\she uses the terminology and methods of nazis and other racists.rmolin73;1214613 wrote:Hahahahahaha someone let this self absorbed clown in on a few things.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:43pm
hope is basis for positive change. and the hope for redemption of others serves a major function in those who offer change to others and those who participate in the change of others.Con_Alma;1214617 wrote:I repeat, I have never disputed what the addition of a person's assistance can do.
I am commenting on the definitives that you offer that are simply inaccurate.
Hope is not the basis for all change.
Hoping for the redemption of another changes nothing.
rmolin73
Posts: 4,278
Jun 28, 2012 9:45pm
You're still not getting it are you? Keep assuming thats what I meant it solidifies your quest to redeem us all.isadore;1214633 wrote:gosh a ruddies it makes no difference the race of the practitioner if he\she uses the terminology and methods of nazis and other racists.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:46pm
the truth will set you free.rmolin73;1214626 wrote:Completely. A bigot thats a first for me.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:47pm
whatever your race is, the statement stands on its own as an example of bigotry.rmolin73;1214641 wrote:You're still not getting it are you? Keep assuming thats what I meant it solidifies your quest to redeem us all.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:48pm
Hope is not the basis for all change be that change positive or negative.isadore;1214636 wrote:hope is basis for positive change. and the hope for redemption of others serves a major function in those who offer change to others and those who participate in the change of others.
Offering hope for others redemption in and of itself does nothing. It can't. Only the individual who you are offering your hope for can ultimate determine if change will occur.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:48pm
There's a lot of things he's just not getting...or doesn't want to.rmolin73;1214641 wrote:You're still not getting it are you? ...
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:53pm
a person goes through positive change with the hope of betterment, redemption, improvement. without the support of others many will not make it. and that hope of redemption is given to the person from another.Con_Alma;1214647 wrote:Hope is not the basis for all change be that change positive or negative.
Offering hope for others redemption in and of itself does nothing. It can't. Only the individual who you are offering your hope for can ultimate determine if change will occur.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:54pm
the statement stands on its own.Con_Alma;1214648 wrote:There's a lot of things he's just not getting...or doesn't want to.
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Con_Alma
Posts: 12,198
Jun 28, 2012 9:55pm
In your example the hope is the supportive role not the initiator.isadore;1214654 wrote:a person goes through positive change with the hope of betterment, redemption, improvement. without the support of others many will not make it. and that hope of redemption is given to the person from another.
Hope in and of itself does absolutely nothing.
It is not the basis for all change.
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isadore
Posts: 7,762
Jun 28, 2012 9:55pm
the statement stands on its own.rmolin73;1214641 wrote:You're still not getting it are you? Keep assuming thats what I meant it solidifies your quest to redeem us all.