isadore;1214295 wrote:to help people twisted by greed, selfishness and bigotry is a slow process. you must attack the presumptions first.

isadore;1214299 wrote:even you can be redeemed.

isadore;1214290 wrote:you only look at the short run.

Con_Alma;1214284 wrote:no, according to the posts on the bulletin board by those you direct the "hope" of redemption.

Your expressed hope is very direct with regards to whom you have wished it upon. It is those people I have spoken of. You have not expressed hope for others, unidentified that may be reading and not commenting. There's no evidence nor history that such an effort on such a medium has an impact over time with those who are posting. Those that you express the wish of "hope"ful redemption" have through posts indicated the effort is not nor will it be successful.

Con_Alma;1214303 wrote:I am only looking at what is with regards to this effort. Your hope will not change anything according to that which is.

Con_Alma;1214302 wrote:...not without him choosing to do so.

isadore;1214305 wrote:It is obviously implied in the fact that it is written on a public thread and not done strictly in private messages. It is there for others. Of course internet efforts have grown into movements.

Con_Alma;1214301 wrote:I haven't spoke to your attack of presumptions. Attack away.

Your "hope" will change nothing. It is that statement that I first offered in this conversation back and forth.

isadore;1214309 wrote:I did not claim it would happen tomorrow.

isadore;1214313 wrote:your cyncism is sad.

O-Trap;1214242 wrote:I said nothing of my own grammar, punctuation, spelling, or the like. I'm far from some ultimate judge, which is probably why I never tout it. There's nothing to tout.

I said your "reading comprehension" was off. That has nothing to do with your grammatical use, punctuation, syntax, or spelling, nor does it address me at all.



I have already. If you are an advocate for good, I trust you will be happy for this.



Theoretically, if it were true, it would not be, as the Apostle Paul commanded the church to "be imitators of God" in Ephesians. However, since I don't believe anyone is a perfect reflection, it would be an untrue statement for someone to say they are.

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To assume that you possess the power to actually aid in the redemptive process is to claim something beyond being human. We cannot redeem, nor can we even assist in redemption. We can only live such lives as to direct people to what can.

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Certainly, they are. I didn't say they were not.

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Insisting that a logical fallacy is not fallacious ... a "guilt by association" assertion ... lends to the fact that you believe what you will, and that what is factual is irrelevant to you.

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Perhaps he was being literal, though using a politically incorrect term.

Moreover, it's very likely he meant it in a colloquial way, which is not literally used in connection to people with an actual ailment. Whether it is APPROPRIATE or not is a different matter. I don't personally like the term, but I'm not the one that said it.

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Not at all. As I said before, the things you're crusading against at the moment are seen in this forum, not to mention other vices like pride. However, I am careful to judge or accuse as little as possible. I would rather err on the side of mercy than on the side of judgment.

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On the contrary, I'm not actively hoping to find it. I only wish to see what is there. I don't have a crusade, so I don't seek vices out in others.

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Perhaps you misread what I wrote. Here, let me quote it for you:

"As for whether or not there are, and have been, examples? Sure there are, and have."

Now, if I say there have been examples of what you say, am I not agreeing with you that they ARE on the forum? Would that not suggest that I have indeed noted them?

This is what I mentioned about reading comprehension. I hope you will work on this through meditation and focus, and that you will receive an ever greater redemption because of it.

Cheers!

isadore;1214321 wrote:.... It is necessarily religious at all. It is about redeeming people on earth, so they are less greedy, selfish and bigoted. That is something people can aspire to.
...

Con_Alma;1214314 wrote:Nor did I suggest you did.

He will not be redeemed unless he chooses to.

Con_Alma;1214318 wrote:Cynicism ...Lol yeah. That's it. I've been called a lot of things....some very accurately. Cynicism isn't one.

I am a very optimistic person that lets very little if anything in this world bother me. Hope for redemption doesn't bother me. I am very realistic that it takes more than Hope....I am optimistic that certain actions are what installs the seeds of change.....Not your "hope". Lol.

isadore;1214321... wrote: You would rather excuse racism, homophobia, greed, selfishness than hurt the practitioner’s feelings. I don’t see it that way.
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isadore;1214335 wrote:then hopefully that works for you.

isadore;1214333 wrote:and with as twisted as he is, not without the help of others to realize the error of his ways.

Con_Alma;1214330 wrote:If you truly want to change those things would be open to the fact that your tact of repetitive expression of hope and redemption is not the means that would be most effective?

Such repetition has not been received in the spirit you claim to offer it. It does not inspire change according to those you have offered it to.

You cannot change them though "hope".

Con_Alma;1214341 wrote:That help is useless and without benefit if and until he chooses. Do you know if he has chosen to be redeemed? He has expressed quite the opposite.

isadore;1214346 wrote:the message is correct, the means to transmit it honest, the resistance expected. The truth is correct whether said once or said innummerable times.

isadore;1214348 wrote:that is why it is a long term project, those negative traits are obviously deeply embedded.

Con_Alma;1214336 wrote:Your exaggeration for effect when claiming that those things are being excused lends to people not responding to your wishes of hope an redemption.

Honestly, if you truly want such things rid in the world, do you believe claims of exaggerated generalities and hope will be what triggers it?

Con_Alma;1214351 wrote:The project and effort will realize no success unless he decides for it to. Your efforts are irrelevant in this regard.

Con_Alma;1214350 wrote:I agree that the truth no matter how many times said is still the truth. You cannot, nor will you change anyone through your "hope"fullness of redemption.