Carlos Beltran to the Indians?

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wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Jul 19, 2011 3:50 PM
If we could plug ben watson into the middle of that lineup....we instantly become a world series favorite.
Jul 19, 2011 3:50pm
ohiobucks1's avatar

ohiobucks1

USA American

4,915 posts
Jul 19, 2011 3:52 PM
This year we will all be happy to make the playoffs.

Next year, we should def. make the playoffs

2 years from now, with a staff of Pomeranz, White, Masterson, xxx,xxx we will be WS contenders.

Hold on to the pitching prospects.
Jul 19, 2011 3:52pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Jul 19, 2011 3:56 PM
I think brinda(knr) had a great point...we are in it this year because of our pitching and especially our bully. You can not count on bullpens from year to year....so you need to strike while the iron is hot. Are they better on paper than the yanks or sox.....nope. But anything can happen if you get in the playoffs.
Jul 19, 2011 3:56pm
Commander of Awesome's avatar

Commander of Awesome

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Jul 19, 2011 4:01 PM
Laley23;834499 wrote:Solid points, and no I am not. But I dont consider Gomez a top prospect. I dont really think Kipnis should be untouchable either. But thats mostly cause I think we can always sign cheap veterans to help us and Phelps can always prove to be solid. Though, I have my doubts there lol.

All I know is, we need to keep stud pitchers, but I dont label Gomez anything close to that. For position players, we dont need to have any untouchable really. How many of our top prospects have panned out? Santana is still young. But Grady didnt, LaPorta sure hasnt. Brantley is what he is. Our 2 best players are Choo and Asdrubal, who can from nowhere, and Hafner wasnt thought of as the #1 1B, that was Ben Broussard.
[video=youtube;wCon43hZ2wg][/video]

Someone mention Ben Broussard?
Jul 19, 2011 4:01pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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29,506 posts
Jul 19, 2011 4:59 PM
BR1986FB;834532 wrote:Pfffft....this is where you lost me. Everyone knows Broussard played the "hot corner."

SMH at myself. How could I be so stupid!
Jul 19, 2011 4:59pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Jul 19, 2011 6:16 PM
Wooball;834452 wrote:Cliff Lee won at least 14 games in each of his first 3 MAJOR LEAGUE seasons, including an 18-5 season in 2005 where he finished 4th in Cy Young voting. So yes, it was conceivable that he could bounce back from a poor 2007 to be a Cy Young type pitcher.

But his ERA blew ass during those seasons.
Jul 19, 2011 6:16pm
F

Footwedge

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9,265 posts
Jul 19, 2011 6:19 PM
wes_mantooth;834589 wrote:I think brinda(knr) had a great point...we are in it this year because of our pitching and especially our bully. You can not count on bullpens from year to year....so you need to strike while the iron is hot. Are they better on paper than the yanks or sox.....nope. But anything can happen if you get in the playoffs.
What? Are you implying that ARod, Jeter, Cano and Texeira make up a better infield than Lonnie, OCab, ACab and LaPorta? Surely you jest.
Jul 19, 2011 6:19pm
F

Footwedge

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9,265 posts
Jul 19, 2011 6:22 PM
Wooball;834420 wrote:I guess I just don't have that high of expectations for Gomez. While he is having a great year at AAA, I don't think his stuff will make him a successful pitcher in the majors. I'd be willing to give up a guy that is 6+ in the MLB rotation that could be replaced for a stick that could help them contend this year.
I think Jenmar is a long shot too. But then again, nobody but nobody gave Tomlin a look either. Crystal balls are funny. Didja know that Juan Bautista was drafted in the 20th round?
Jul 19, 2011 6:22pm
wes_mantooth's avatar

wes_mantooth

Tomfoolery & shenanigans

17,977 posts
Jul 19, 2011 6:23 PM
Footwedge;834706 wrote:What? Are you implying that ARod, Jeter, Cano and Texeira make up a better infield than Lonnie, OCab, ACab and LaPorta? Surely you jest.

Lol, no. I am saying if you can get hot at the right time....you have a chance. I said that they are not the better team.
Jul 19, 2011 6:23pm
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Footwedge

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Jul 19, 2011 6:23 PM
Laley23;834455 wrote:I dont think we will win it with Beltran. But I would have no issues saying he makes us the immediate favorites to win the AL Central. Then, WHO KNOWS? We have the pitching (1-3) to make a decent run, if they are on their game.

Im not saying Gomez cant be a good ML pitcher, but he isnt in our future...so why hold on to him when Beltran is available for the taking. He isnt a better prospect than Masterson, CC, Pomeranz, or White. He could be better than Tomlin, cause he is still a ****ing mystery to me lol. How is he winning with his stuff?
Tomlin throws a lot harder than Maddox ever did....just sayin.
Jul 19, 2011 6:23pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jul 19, 2011 6:31 PM
Footwedge;834707 wrote:I think Jenmar is a long shot too. But then again, nobody but nobody gave Tomlin a look either. Crystal balls are funny. Didja know that Juan Bautista was drafted in the 20th round?

Who is Juan Bautista, and why do I care where he was drafted?
Jul 19, 2011 6:31pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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15,696 posts
Jul 19, 2011 6:33 PM
Gomez and McAlister are not in the future plans, imo.

You develop all of this pitching so the lower level guys of the group become expendable.

Am I saying I want Beltran? No, not exactly.. Though I wouldn't mind him at the right price. However, you can not tell me that Beltran doesn't automatically make this team that much better.

Our SP and BP have been VERY good. Carlos Santana is really starting to hit well and Druby, Brantley, and Hafner are playing as consistent as you could hope.

I look at the 2007 team. That team had a very good core, but they only saw the playoffs once. Nothing is guaranteed. If you have a shot, you take it.

IMO, the only guys I don't trade no mater the deal is White & Pomeranz. Maybe Chisenhall and Kipnis unless the return is THAT good.

The Tribe has pitching depth with or without Gomez and McAllister. Look at what David Huff just did? In fact, Huff may be a guy being auditioned for a trade now, as the Tribe may feel Gomez has the higher ceiling between the 2.

The rotation of the future will be

Masterson, White, Pomeranz, Tomlin, Carrasco. You'll still have a guy or two that could come up and give you an emergency start. I doubt the Tribe is trading all 3 guys (McAllister, Huff, Gomez)
Jul 19, 2011 6:33pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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Jul 19, 2011 7:18 PM
And add fausto in there also. Like I said we are log jammed in the rotation so some guys are expendable to bring in a big bat
Jul 19, 2011 7:18pm
B

BR1986FB

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Jul 19, 2011 7:36 PM
wes_mantooth;834589 wrote:I think brinda(knr) had a great point...we are in it this year because of our pitching and especially our bully. You can not count on bullpens from year to year....so you need to strike while the iron is hot. Are they better on paper than the yanks or sox.....nope. But anything can happen if you get in the playoffs.

I heard the fat man too and I'm starting to come around to that way of thinking.

Brinda made the point that if the Tribe was winning by outslugging the opposition but had shitty pitching he wouldn't make a move but when you have very good pitching, like this year, you roll the dice on a trade. He also said that if Strikemore's injury is worse than thought it's likely the last time he'll be seen in a Tribe uni.

I like Carrera but he's not the long-term answer. They need an outfielder with some pop.

Now do I think that will get them over the top? No, but there's no guarantee that they will be contenders next year (see 2005, not pulling the trigger & missing the playoffs)
Jul 19, 2011 7:36pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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Jul 19, 2011 7:37 PM
devil1197;834492 wrote:I am just looking at this long term.

The Red Sox are stacked, the Yankees are the Yankees, and the West is always tough with LAA/Texas. Beltran added to this lineup still leaves us well short with the talent needed to win against proven, veteran teams.

With the Indians owner and the unwillingness to spend, we cannot afford to give up our top prospects for a rental who will just get us to the playoffs.
The Red Sox will always be stacked...the Yankees will always be stacked. But in a short series anybody can get hot. But you have to give yourself the opportunity by getting to the dance. This year we have a great opportunity to get to the dance, and once that happens, anybody can win. I don't think you can afford to sell yourself short and say 'we don't have enough to win this year, so let's just hang on to all our prospects' hoping that next year the chance will be better. We all know what happened in 2006 and 2008...years where the Tribe was 'supposed' to be contenders for it all. The team fell flat on its face. You have to seize the opportunity when it's there....and it's here RIGHT NOW!
You have to keep in mind that prospects are just that....prospects. They've proved NOTHING...and for every one that turns out to be Sin Soo Choo, you have one that turns out to be Andy Marte. Many more become decent major leaguers, but not necessarily ones that cannot be easily replaced. I would not be opposed to trading a few of those prospects for the opportunity to improve our position NOW, with a PROVEN player.

As far as 'untouchables'...only Chisenhall and our two top pitching prospects. You can't trade Chiz because we just don't have enough depth at 3B.
Jul 19, 2011 7:37pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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Jul 19, 2011 8:03 PM
Well said hits
Jul 19, 2011 8:03pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

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Jul 19, 2011 8:39 PM
Footwedge:

Cliff Lee from 2004-2006
14-8 w/ 5.43 ERA
18-5 w/ 3.79 ERA
14-11 w/ 4.40 ERA
Besides 2004, his ERA didn't "blow ass" for the American League

You have to be kidding that Josh Tomlin throws "a lot" harder than Greg Maddux ever did.

Who is Juan Bautista?
Jul 19, 2011 8:39pm
iclfan2's avatar

iclfan2

Reppin' the 330/216/843

6,360 posts
Jul 19, 2011 9:00 PM
According to an ESPN source on twitter, the Indians are working hard on deals for either Josh Willingham or Ryan Ludwick.
Jul 19, 2011 9:00pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jul 20, 2011 12:49 AM
We discussed Ludwick a few weeks ago on another thread....he would be a cheaper option than Beltran in terms of what you might have to give up.
Jul 20, 2011 12:49am
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BigAppleBuckeye

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Jul 20, 2011 1:35 PM
Big rumor here in NYC today that Beltran is going to be dealt to Philly for cash and Dominic Brown. Would be HUGE for the Mets to land a prospect of that caliber, even if it means seeing Beltran play for the damn Phils.
Jul 20, 2011 1:35pm
Ty Webb's avatar

Ty Webb

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Jul 20, 2011 1:54 PM
Willingham is now being linked to Pittsburgh along with a relief pitcher.

Beltran will go to either Boston or Philly.
Jul 20, 2011 1:54pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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Jul 20, 2011 7:38 PM
Buster olney was saying during the mets game that Beltran will most likely be had for a grade b or c prospect. The phillies and boston are not willing to give up their top prospects bc they have a comfortable lead in their division. Sounds good for the tribe
Jul 20, 2011 7:38pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

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Jul 20, 2011 9:25 PM
The Tribe needs to do something. Especially since they won't have to include Pomeranz or White.
Jul 20, 2011 9:25pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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Jul 20, 2011 10:25 PM
I say you go out and offer Gomez and phelps and maybe even talbot for beltran. He is a guy who instantly sparks an offense and plays pretty good d. All I know is they absolutely have to do something
Jul 20, 2011 10:25pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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Jul 20, 2011 10:58 PM
All I know is they absolutely have to do something
The team, (Acta) has said as much. He was quoted in the paper this AM(paraphrasing) that the team needs to make a trade, and that the front office has been working the phones and been talking to several teams. But , "it takes two to tango" to make a deal work for both teams. He went on to say that the team would not mortgage the future, and specifically mentioned Chisenhall as not being available.
Jul 20, 2011 10:58pm