Carlos Beltran to the Indians?

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Wooball

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Jul 19, 2011 2:12 PM
devil1197;834393 wrote:They will not give up any of their top pitching prospects for Beltran, who is going to be a rental.

I don't care if he is the #6 guy in the rotation, this year shows how important depth is. We have had basically our entire pitching staff miss starts or long periods of time. I am not getting rid of our depth in the pitching department for a rent a bat player.

I don't mind giving up Kipnis or another position player for a bat.

I guess I just don't have that high of expectations for Gomez. While he is having a great year at AAA, I don't think his stuff will make him a successful pitcher in the majors. I'd be willing to give up a guy that is 6+ in the MLB rotation that could be replaced for a stick that could help them contend this year.
Jul 19, 2011 2:12pm
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Wooball

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Jul 19, 2011 2:14 PM
royal_k;834411 wrote:He could be the guy to do this IF, and it is a big IF, some of the other players in the line up step up. That would be Santana, Chiz, and LaPorta. Plus you would be counting on Fausto pitching like 2007 instead of the majority of this season. But I wouldn't include White or Pomeranz in any trade. Maybe they would take One of the AAA pitchers and 2 lower prospects, like Chen and Weglarz. Chen has a very high ceiling as does Weglarz. They are desperate to unload salary and really need to.
Multiple reports have the Mets willing to pay the remainder of Beltran's salary (approximately $6 million) in order to improve the quality of prospects they get in return.
Jul 19, 2011 2:14pm
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Laley23

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Jul 19, 2011 2:17 PM
like_that;834400 wrote:This year isn't a World Series year with the pieces they have now. Beltran is not gong to put the team over the top. You can only hope these guys get hot at the right time, because that is the only chance of making a run at a WS title.

And what year is a WS year that will project McCallister or Gomez as part of the team?

They arent in our future. Guys like that are a luxury to BE ABLE to trade for a big bat to help you win. At what point do you trade those guys....Im not trying to keep someone because we may have to use them when 2 guys go to the DL when it means not getting Carlos Beltran. Thats just terrible reasoning.
Jul 19, 2011 2:17pm
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royal_k

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Jul 19, 2011 2:18 PM
Wooball;834421 wrote:Multiple reports have the Mets willing to pay the remainder of Beltran's salary (approximately $6 million) in order to improve the quality of prospects they get in return.
I've hears that too. But i'm not so sure i believe it. I've also heard they are in big trouble financially.
Jul 19, 2011 2:18pm
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Jul 19, 2011 2:19 PM
devil1197;834402 wrote:Beltran isn't the player that will put us over the top.

But Jeanmar Gomez is???? Please.
Jul 19, 2011 2:19pm
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like_that

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Jul 19, 2011 2:20 PM
Laley23;834428 wrote:And what year is a WS year that will project McCallister or Gomez as part of the team?

They arent in our future. Guys like that are a luxury to BE ABLE to trade for a big bat to help you win. At what point do you trade those guys....Im not trying to keep someone because we may have to use them when 2 guys go to the DL when it means not getting Carlos Beltran. Thats just terrible reasoning.

You never know. Did you think Cliff Lee was going to be one of the best pitchers in the MLB after he was sent down to the minors in 2007? The Tribe should just keep developing their young pitching talent, just like the Giants did. Look where the Giants are now.
Jul 19, 2011 2:20pm
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like_that

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Jul 19, 2011 2:21 PM
Laley23;834434 wrote:But Jeanmar Gomez is???? Please.

Neither will NOW.
Jul 19, 2011 2:21pm
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royal_k

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Jul 19, 2011 2:21 PM
You put Beltran somewhere in the middle of this line up and it gets much better right away.
Jul 19, 2011 2:21pm
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Jul 19, 2011 2:25 PM
like_that;834438 wrote:You never know. Did you think Cliff Lee was going to be one of the best pitchers in the MLB after he was sent down to the minors in 2007? The Tribe should just keep developing their young pitching talent, just like the Giants did. Look where the Giants are now.

Ummm, yes. I thought he was one of the best pitchers before he sucked. I was utterly STUNNED when he was shit in 2007. Now, a Cy Young winner....no, but I dont usually think players will be THE BEST. Just one of the top 10 or so, because some stuff is so arbitrary. But sure, I thought he would, no lie.
Jul 19, 2011 2:25pm
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devil1197

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Jul 19, 2011 2:25 PM
Laley23;834434 wrote:But Jeanmar Gomez is???? Please.

First off, learn to read and find where I said Gomez would put us over the top.

Pretty simple what I said, I am not willing to trade our pitching prospects for a rent a player who won't sign with us.
Jul 19, 2011 2:25pm
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Wooball

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Jul 19, 2011 2:26 PM
like_that;834438 wrote:You never know. Did you think Cliff Lee was going to be one of the best pitchers in the MLB after he was sent down to the minors in 2007? The Tribe should just keep developing their young pitching talent, just like the Giants did. Look where the Giants are now.

Cliff Lee won at least 14 games in each of his first 3 MAJOR LEAGUE seasons, including an 18-5 season in 2005 where he finished 4th in Cy Young voting. So yes, it was conceivable that he could bounce back from a poor 2007 to be a Cy Young type pitcher.
Jul 19, 2011 2:26pm
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Jul 19, 2011 2:27 PM
like_that;834439 wrote:Neither will NOW.

I dont think we will win it with Beltran. But I would have no issues saying he makes us the immediate favorites to win the AL Central. Then, WHO KNOWS? We have the pitching (1-3) to make a decent run, if they are on their game.

Im not saying Gomez cant be a good ML pitcher, but he isnt in our future...so why hold on to him when Beltran is available for the taking. He isnt a better prospect than Masterson, CC, Pomeranz, or White. He could be better than Tomlin, cause he is still a fucking mystery to me lol. How is he winning with his stuff?
Jul 19, 2011 2:27pm
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Jul 19, 2011 2:28 PM
devil1197;834449 wrote:First off, learn to read and find where I said Gomez would put us over the top.

Pretty simple what I said, I am not willing to trade our pitching prospects for a rent a player who won't sign with us.

Ok, but when you say you wont trade a player cause the return wont help you win a WS, it insinuates that the player you are keeping will. Gomez is not in our future, barring injuries (which would essentially take us out anyway) so why not make a run at it.
Jul 19, 2011 2:28pm
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BR1986FB

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Jul 19, 2011 2:29 PM
Gomez, to me, is "JJ Hickson Part Deux"...VERY expendable.
Jul 19, 2011 2:29pm
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devil1197

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Jul 19, 2011 2:33 PM
Laley23;834462 wrote:Ok, but when you say you wont trade a player cause the return wont help you win a WS, it insinuates that the player you are keeping will. Gomez is not in our future, barring injuries (which would essentially take us out anyway) so why not make a run at it.

Twist it however you want to, but that's nowhere near what I am saying.

Keep the majority of your top prospects, including all the pitchers, and trade for players that will improve the roster but won't take much away from the farm system.

We're playing in the Central, it won't take much to make the Indians the favorites considering they've basically led the division the entire season despite the mass injuries.
Jul 19, 2011 2:33pm
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royal_k

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Jul 19, 2011 2:37 PM
Francour could be had cheaper than Beltran. But which player gives us the better chance?
Jul 19, 2011 2:37pm
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Jul 19, 2011 2:38 PM
devil1197;834472 wrote:Twist it however you want to, but that's nowhere near what I am saying.

Keep the majority of your top prospects, including all the pitchers, and trade for players that will improve the roster but won't take much away from the farm system.

We're playing in the Central, it won't take much to make the Indians the favorites considering they've basically led the division the entire season despite the mass injuries.

But Im saying, why keep them if they arent going to be in the rotation? Why keep someone and plan for DL stints?

Why hold them and trade lower guys for a player who isnt as good as someone you could have?
Jul 19, 2011 2:38pm
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devil1197

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Jul 19, 2011 2:40 PM
royal_k;834479 wrote:Francour could be had cheaper than Beltran. But which player gives us the better chance?
Both are hitting for the same power and RBI's really.

Like I said, we have Kearns and Buck right now. Francoeur would be an instant improvement over those two guys without breaking the farm system.

The Mets are going to be demanding top prospects if they are willing to pay for the majority of his salary.

Are you guys willing to send off our top prospects for a rental?
Jul 19, 2011 2:40pm
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royal_k

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Jul 19, 2011 2:41 PM
devil1197;834483 wrote:Both are hitting for the same power and RBI's really.

Like I said, we have Kearns and Buck right now. Francoeur would be an instant improvement over those two guys.

I would agree with that and be estatic if they could pull off a trade for him.
Jul 19, 2011 2:41pm
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Crimson streak

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Jul 19, 2011 2:43 PM
BR1986FB;834466 wrote:Gomez, to me, is "JJ Hickson Part Deux"...VERY expendable.

Agreed anything can happen in baseball once your in the playoffs. Look at the tribe in 2007. They very easily could have won the ws. Beltran makes us better and if were not going to trade for him bc of Gomez then I lose faith in the front office. This tribe line up with Beltran and a healthy chop can definitely make a run at the world series this year
Jul 19, 2011 2:43pm
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devil1197

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Jul 19, 2011 2:44 PM
royal_k;834486 wrote:I would agree with that and be estatic if they could pull off a trade for him.

I am just looking at this long term.

The Red Sox are stacked, the Yankees are the Yankees, and the West is always tough with LAA/Texas. Beltran added to this lineup still leaves us well short with the talent needed to win against proven, veteran teams.

With the Indians owner and the unwillingness to spend, we cannot afford to give up our top prospects for a rental who will just get us to the playoffs.
Jul 19, 2011 2:44pm
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BigAppleBuckeye

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Jul 19, 2011 2:45 PM
devil1197;834483 wrote:Both are hitting for the same power and RBI's really.

Like I said, we have Kearns and Buck right now. Francoeur would be an instant improvement over those two guys without breaking the farm system.

The Mets are going to be demanding top prospects if they are willing to pay for the majority of his salary.

Are you guys willing to send off our top prospects for a rental?
As a Mets fan that has seen both players on our roster, Beltran is light years better than Francoeur. Granted, Beltran will cost you more, but Beltran is still a stud, believe me (guy started the All-Star game for a reason). Francoeur will rack up a bunch of stats in one week, then go the rest of the month batting under .100. Great clubhouse guy, but very streaky.
Jul 19, 2011 2:45pm
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Laley23

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Jul 19, 2011 2:47 PM
devil1197;834483 wrote:Both are hitting for the same power and RBI's really.

Like I said, we have Kearns and Buck right now. Francoeur would be an instant improvement over those two guys without breaking the farm system.

The Mets are going to be demanding top prospects if they are willing to pay for the majority of his salary.

Are you guys willing to send off our top prospects for a rental?

Solid points, and no I am not. But I dont consider Gomez a top prospect. I dont really think Kipnis should be untouchable either. But thats mostly cause I think we can always sign cheap veterans to help us and Phelps can always prove to be solid. Though, I have my doubts there lol.

All I know is, we need to keep stud pitchers, but I dont label Gomez anything close to that. For position players, we dont need to have any untouchable really. How many of our top prospects have panned out? Santana is still young. But Grady didnt, LaPorta sure hasnt. Brantley is what he is. Our 2 best players are Choo and Asdrubal, who can from nowhere, and Hafner wasnt thought of as the #1 1B, that was Ben Broussard.
Jul 19, 2011 2:47pm
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BR1986FB

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Jul 19, 2011 3:14 PM
Laley23;834499 wrote:and Hafner wasnt thought of as the #1 1B, that was Ben Broussard.

Pfffft....this is where you lost me. Everyone knows Broussard played the "hot corner."
Jul 19, 2011 3:14pm
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Wooball

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Jul 19, 2011 3:15 PM
Laley23;834499 wrote:
All I know is, we need to keep stud pitchers, but I dont label Gomez anything close to that. For position players, we dont need to have any untouchable really. How many of our top prospects have panned out? Santana is still young. But Grady didnt, LaPorta sure hasnt. Brantley is what he is. Our 2 best players are Choo and Asdrubal, who can from nowhere, and Hafner wasnt thought of as the #1 1B, that was Ben Broussard.

Nowhere AKA the Seattle Mariner's minor league system. Whoever made the decision to part w/ those 2 guys in separate trades for Ben Broussard and Eduardo Perez probably no longer has a job.

And I agree with your opinion on Jeanmar Gomez that he will not be in the top 4 of the Tribe rotation, and if Tomlin continues to trick people into outs he is the 5th starter. If we are keeping potential bottom of the rotation starters in case of injury to not add a bat that helps us contend this year then I will not be pleased w/ the front office. The bigger question probably is a guy of Gomez's value able to land a guy like Carlos Beltran. And I wouldn't be willing to give Kipnis up for a rental player, but would include him for a guy like Pence w/ years left on his contract/arbitration clock.
Jul 19, 2011 3:15pm