Safety or no safety?

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bases_loaded

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Jan 5, 2011 10:47 PM
bigkahuna;627430 wrote:Really? LOL

Once he's in the endzone, game over. Once, he crossed the goal line, it doesn't matter how many yards he was pushed back. It's not like a level system where yds 1-2=2 points but the back of the endzone=5.

Where he "broke" the tackle was 3 yards deep in the endzone...so he was PUSHED 3 + 3 = 6 yards BACKWARDS. YOU FUCKtard.
Jan 5, 2011 10:47pm
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bigkahuna

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Jan 5, 2011 11:52 PM
Those last 3 yards don't count FUCKtard. Once you're in the endzone, you're in the endzone. It doesn't matter if you are 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 or 10 yards deep. The goal line is the goal line.
Jan 5, 2011 11:52pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

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Jan 5, 2011 11:55 PM
Why does basic common sense fly out the window when it involves a call against Ohio State?
Jan 5, 2011 11:55pm
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bigkahuna

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Jan 5, 2011 11:56 PM
Sonofanump;627537 wrote:I disagree. The reverse angle shows the linejudge putting his hand in the air on the two yard line. A hand in the air signifies the end of the play. We have an official signaling dead ball standing on the two yard line.

But, the whistle wasn't blown. Should the whistle have been blown? yes. Was the line judge there for the spot? yes. However, the play continued. With the way the play went, it was a safety.

Karen has said the same thing about 10 times.

I seriously wish he would have made it into some kind of positive run, so we could see the reaction of people. Are you mad because of the call or because the call happened against OSU?
Jan 5, 2011 11:56pm
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

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Jan 6, 2011 12:00 AM
bigkahuna;627605 wrote:But, the whistle wasn't blown. Should the whistle have been blown? yes. Was the line judge there for the spot? yes. However, the play continued. With the way the play went, it was a safety.

Karen has said the same thing about 10 times.

I seriously wish he would have made it into some kind of positive run, so we could see the reaction of people. Are you mad because of the call or because the call happened against OSU?


So they blew the call, they should have blown the whistle and they didn't...

they blew the fucking call...Jesus
Jan 6, 2011 12:00am
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bigkahuna

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Jan 6, 2011 12:12 AM
Oh my God. I feel like I'm on a NASCAR Race Track.
Jan 6, 2011 12:12am
ytownfootball's avatar

ytownfootball

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Jan 6, 2011 12:14 AM
I feel like a voyeur in the stands...bunch of hillbilly retard logic to a simple fuck question.

It should not have been a safety.
Jan 6, 2011 12:14am
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karen lotz

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Jan 6, 2011 1:11 AM
ytownfootball;627613 wrote:I feel like a voyeur in the stands...bunch of hillbilly retard logic to a simple fuck question.

It should not have been a safety.


You are right that it probably shouldn't have been, but the whistle wasn't blown, therefore forward progress was not given at the 2 yard line. If the other linesman did come running in with his hand up, why wouldn't he start blowing his whistle as Herron was fighting for extra yards? The refs all gathered together and apparently the one who had his hand up (which apparently is the universal signal for forward progress stopping) wasn't convinced he was in fact stopped. I have never in my life seen a play stopped because an official raises his hand. For about the 23rd time, the only thing you can argue is the whistle not being blown. If its blown, forward progress is at the 2, since it wasn't, the play resulted in a safety.
Jan 6, 2011 1:11am
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Big Gain

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Jan 6, 2011 1:49 AM
The official knew Herron was on of The Evil Five. PUNISH HIM!
Jan 6, 2011 1:49am
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Big Gain

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Jan 6, 2011 2:02 AM
CinciX12;626397 wrote:But that isn't what happened! Boom threw that guy off of him. The Arkansas defender didn't just fall off of him. Boom, who is an incredibly strong guy evidenced by his stiff arms, threw the guy's ass off of him (breaking a tackle).
You're not paying attention. The tackler knowing the situation should always make it look like he's being "thrown off" for a second and them regrasp. Thus there should be 100's of safties a year, instead of a handful, the way this official made the call.

Try this one on for size. The running back is on the 2 yard line and is pushed back 3 yards deep in the end zone, no whistle. How long should the official let the play go in anticipation of a potential safety? Until the runner is shoved out of the back of the end zone?????????
Jan 6, 2011 2:02am
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Hamp89

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Jan 6, 2011 6:43 AM
IMO, the right call was made because the whistle in fact wasn't blown for forward progess. Half of the play is Boom's fault for attempting to make more out of it that close to the goal line. Just get your yards and go down.

The closest example to this I can think of is when a WR catches a ball, reaches the first down marker, breaks a tackle after being driven back giving up yards to advance the ball further but in fact gets tackled by another defender giving up the original yards he gained. No first down now - forward progress is not awarded in that situation because he broke the tackle. If he just goes down past the first down marker, he get the first down. Sometimes fighting for more yards can have a negative affect. It has to work both ways, imo.
Jan 6, 2011 6:43am
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dat dude

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Jan 6, 2011 7:22 AM
The WHOLE POINT of saying the official blew the call is that he DID NOT blow the whistle for calling the play dead at the point of forward progress. So, the dumb argument that since the whistle wasn't blown, it makes it the right call is ridiculous.

The fact that he broke the tackle 5 yards after the point of contact is irrelevant. Haven't you ever watched a game where an official calls the play dead prior to the runner being tackled to the ground? Is the official supposed to wait until the runner is tackled before calling the play dead? That way, we can see if he ever "breaks a tackle." Look at the rule. It was a blown call, as evidenced by sonofanump's post regarding how the call is regarded with his colleagues.
Jan 6, 2011 7:22am
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dat dude

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Jan 6, 2011 7:37 AM
[video=youtube;_gpeijcaMUQ][/video]


On the reverse angle (at about the 2:30 mark) you can see the official at the top of the screen signaling dead ball at about the 2 yard line. Unfortunately, the official on the other side of the field and the head official had already discussed a safety and made the call before the correct official could converse with them.
Jan 6, 2011 7:37am
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HitsRus

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Jan 6, 2011 8:18 AM
This is a rule which will HAVE to be looked at and changed in much the same way that there is a rule where the offense cannot purposefully fumble a ball forward.

otherwise, this play goes into every defensive coordinators playbook tomorrow....push the runner back into the endzone...let him go...swarm him and tackle him in the end zone. SAFETY!

It should be the defense' responsibility to contain the runner until the whistle blows...and the runner should not be put at risk for trying to advance the ball.
This should be a case where forward progress is awarded.
Jan 6, 2011 8:18am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

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Jan 6, 2011 8:47 AM
bigkahuna;627600 wrote:Those last 3 yards don't count FUCKtard. Once you're in the endzone, you're in the endzone. It doesn't matter if you are 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9 or 10 yards deep. The goal line is the goal line.

It doesn't matter in the statbook...it does matter when discussing how far backwards a player was being pushed...
Jan 6, 2011 8:47am
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bigkahuna

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Jan 6, 2011 10:03 AM
Is is this hard to comprehend? The goal line is a magical line. Once the line is broken, it doesn't matter how far back he goes. If he never gets out of the endzone, how many yards does he get pushed back? It doesn't matter. The yardage goes out the window and is a moot point. If how deep he was pushed into the endzone mattered, then there would be yard lines in the endzone or something, so we could have accurate measurements.

The endzone is the endzone, and the goal line is the goal line. There is no depth requirement.

I'll give you that he was pushed back 2 yards. However, once he crossed the goal line, it doesn't matter how much further he was pushed back.
Jan 6, 2011 10:03am
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dat dude

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Jan 6, 2011 10:14 AM
bigkahuna;627807 wrote:Is is this hard to comprehend? The goal line is a magical line. Once the line is broken, it doesn't matter how far back he goes. If he never gets out of the endzone, how many yards does he get pushed back? It doesn't matter. The yardage goes out the window and is a moot point. If how deep he was pushed into the endzone mattered, then there would be yard lines in the endzone or something, so we could have accurate measurements.

The endzone is the endzone, and the goal line is the goal line. There is no depth requirement.

Lol. Ok, so you are saying for dead ball/forward progress purposes, it wouldn't matter whether Herron was pushed from the 2 yard line to just across the end zone plane (2 yards) compared to Herron being pushed from the 2 yard line to 9 yards deep in the end zone (11 yards)?

To me, it wouldn't matter because his forward progress was stopped at the 2 yard line. Therefore, a safety was the incorrect call. But if I recall, you are arguing that the play was correctly called a safety. And using your logic (?) that the distance he was pushed back into the endzone is irrelevant, it would still be ruled a safety if he were pushed back 9 yards deep in the endzone, correct?
Jan 6, 2011 10:14am
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bigkahuna

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Jan 6, 2011 10:47 AM
Yes?

This is what I am saying. Being hit at the 2 and pushed back, it doesn't matter how far he was pushed back after the initial 2 yards because he was in the endzone then.

Let's look at the touchdown rule. Once the ball crosses the plane, it's a touchdown. It doesn't how deep the ball goes, it crossed the goal line.

I'm arguing with people that are upset because he was 2-3 yards deep into the endzone. That doesn't matter.

The only time the depth of the enzone matters is on a KO, and that is for statistical purposes.

I really don't understand what the big issue is with how far he was pushed back is after he/the ball was in the endzone.
Jan 6, 2011 10:47am
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dat dude

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Jan 6, 2011 10:50 AM
bigkahuna;627849 wrote:Yes?

This is what I am saying. Being hit at the 2 and pushed back, it doesn't matter how far he was pushed back after the initial 2 yards because he was in the endzone then.

Let's look at the touchdown rule. Once the ball crosses the plane, it's a touchdown. It doesn't how deep the ball goes, it crossed the goal line.

I'm arguing with people that are upset because he was 2-3 yards deep into the endzone. That doesn't matter.

The only time the depth of the enzone matters is on a KO, and that is for statistical purposes.

I really don't understand what the big issue is with how far he was pushed back is.

What if Herron was hit by the defender at the 5 yard line then pushed back over the goaline? Would you still consider that a safety?

What about the 10 yard line?
Jan 6, 2011 10:50am
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Sonofanump

Jan 6, 2011 10:54 AM
bigkahuna;627605 wrote:But, the whistle wasn't blown. Should the whistle have been blown? yes. Was the line judge there for the spot? yes. However, the play continued. With the way the play went, it was a safety.

Karen has said the same thing about 10 times.

I seriously wish he would have made it into some kind of positive run, so we could see the reaction of people. Are you mad because of the call or because the call happened against OSU?

I guess you did not read my previous post; maybe your comprehension would be a bit better. For those of you lacking in football rules knowledge; the official signaling with his hand in the air that the ball is dead is the same as the whistle. Both end the play.
Jan 6, 2011 10:54am
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bigkahuna

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Jan 6, 2011 10:59 AM
dat dude;627718 wrote:[video=youtube;_gpeijcaMUQ][/video]


On the reverse angle (at about the 2:30 mark) you can see the official at the top of the screen signaling dead ball at about the 2 yard line. Unfortunately, the official on the other side of the field and the head official had already discussed a safety and made the call before the correct official could converse with them.

I would argue that the other official has nothing to do with this because of his position on the field along with the rest of the crew. How many times have you seen on LJ mark the ball just to have the other LJ (who may have a better vantage point because it was on his side of the field) mark it differently?

I was watching the Gator Bowl (I think), and it looked as though Michigan had forced a fumble close to the goal line, denying MSSt of a TD. The back judge threw down his little bean bag indicating a fumble and started declaring a touch back in favor of Michigan. The line judge came in and argued because he had a better view because he was standing on the goal line, while the back judge was under the goal post. One official over turning another is quite common in all sports, so just because the LJ on the other side of the field doesn't mean he was correct.
Jan 6, 2011 10:59am
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vball10set

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Jan 6, 2011 11:01 AM
it wasn't a safety, and in the immortal words of Dan "Moronski" Fouts---bad call !!!!
Jan 6, 2011 11:01am
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bigkahuna

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Jan 6, 2011 11:06 AM
dat dude;627856 wrote:What if Herron was hit by the defender at the 5 yard line then pushed back over the goaline? Would you still consider that a safety?

What about the 10 yard line?

In these 2 circumstances, no I would not because anyone with any football knowledge would assume that the whistle be blown.

I've said before, that I would agree that it was a slow whistle. A slow whistle =/= bad call.
Jan 6, 2011 11:06am
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Sonofanump

Jan 6, 2011 11:07 AM
bigkahuna;627870 wrote:I would argue that the other official has nothing to do with this

Even with your logic, we have an inadvertent signal, replay the down. Either way, no safety.

Live Ball Becomes Dead
ARTICLE 2. a. A live ball becomes a dead ball as provided in the rules or
when an official sounds his whistle (even though inadvertently) or otherwise
signals the ball dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II and A.R. 4-2-4-I).
b. If an official sounds his whistle inadvertently or otherwise signals the
ball dead during a down (Rules 4-1-3-k and m):
Jan 6, 2011 11:07am
bases_loaded's avatar

bases_loaded

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Jan 6, 2011 11:08 AM
bigkahuna;627807 wrote:Is is this hard to comprehend? The goal line is a magical line. Once the line is broken, it doesn't matter how far back he goes. If he never gets out of the endzone, how many yards does he get pushed back? It doesn't matter. The yardage goes out the window and is a moot point. If how deep he was pushed into the endzone mattered, then there would be yard lines in the endzone or something, so we could have accurate measurements.

The endzone is the endzone, and the goal line is the goal line. There is no depth requirement.

I'll give you that he was pushed back 2 yards. However, once he crossed the goal line, it doesn't matter how much further he was pushed back.

It completely matters when trying to judge whether or not a player was pushed back or ran back. The reason it is such a big deal that he was 3 yards deep in the endzone is to further prove the point that his forward progress was stopped.
Jan 6, 2011 11:08am