Safety or no safety?

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ts1227's avatar

ts1227

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Jan 5, 2011 2:21 AM
OrrvilleQB;626385 wrote:he refs were pretty bad all night...even though the Bucks didn't have many penalties. Too many players taunting the buckeyes and never called, The entire D-line was held the entire night and barely called....and then of course the safety call.

They let a lot go both ways. Don't kid yourself.
Jan 5, 2011 2:21am
Cleveland Buck's avatar

Cleveland Buck

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Jan 5, 2011 2:22 AM
Herron broke the tackle and continued to go backward. He never again progressed forward, therefore his forward progress was stopped at the 2 yard line.
Jan 5, 2011 2:22am
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OQB

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Jan 5, 2011 2:22 AM
Cincy....sorry you had to waste 20 seconds of your life reading a post :D
Jan 5, 2011 2:22am
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CinciX12

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Jan 5, 2011 2:24 AM
OrrvilleQB;626403 wrote:Cincy....sorry you had to waste 20 seconds of your life reading a post :D

If you had said it last year when I wasn't an official I wouldn't have gotten nearly as annoyed lol. All about perspective.
Jan 5, 2011 2:24am
CinciX12's avatar

CinciX12

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Jan 5, 2011 2:26 AM
Cleveland Buck;626402 wrote:Herron broke the tackle and continued to go backward. He never again progressed forward, therefore his forward progress was stopped at the 2 yard line.

Nope. You are awarded forward progress with a blown whistle and if you do not make an attempt to gain further yards. Obviously not the exact wording of the rule. But breaking that tackle was just not a good decision.
Jan 5, 2011 2:26am
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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Jan 5, 2011 2:27 AM
Cleveland Buck;626402 wrote:Herron broke the tackle and continued to go backward. He never again progressed forward, therefore his forward progress was stopped at the 2 yard line.


Doesn't matter that he continued backward. You have honestly never seen anyone break a tackle, give ground and either lose more yardage or gain yards from where the initial tackle was broken?
Jan 5, 2011 2:27am
CinciX12's avatar

CinciX12

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Jan 5, 2011 2:30 AM
It can't be this difficult. He broke the tackle. He broke the tackle. He broke the tackle.
Jan 5, 2011 2:30am
OQB's avatar

OQB

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Jan 5, 2011 2:32 AM
Well, Glad to have an officials view....

Let me ask you a few questions about certain calls:

Regardless of the call, do you personally feel it was a safety?
What do you think of the rule where just the ball has to cross the goalline...instead of the entire player?
Jan 5, 2011 2:32am
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Cleveland Buck

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Jan 5, 2011 2:33 AM
karen lotz;626408 wrote:Doesn't matter that he continued backward. You have honestly never seen anyone break a tackle, give ground and either lose more yardage or gain yards from where the initial tackle was broken?

I have. It usually involves a guy running backwards losing 5 yards, turning it back up and gaining 2 yards from there. He lost 3 yards, but he started progressing forward again. I've seen running backs in the position Boom was in break the tackle and gain ground to barely get the ball out of the end zone. Again, they progressed forward after the initial progress was stopped. I've never seen (at least that I can recall) a runner driven back, break the tackle, not go anywhere and get immediately driven farther back, and not get awarded his forward progress.
Jan 5, 2011 2:33am
OQB's avatar

OQB

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Jan 5, 2011 2:34 AM
Ok, just to play devils advocate.....What if it was his backward momentum, and the LB falling down that caused him to get away from the initial defender?
Jan 5, 2011 2:34am
D

dat dude

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1,564 posts
Jan 5, 2011 2:42 AM
Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar, when a ball carrier is out of bounds,
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
http://www.ncaapublications.com/productdownloads/FR09.pdf
SECTION 8. Forward, Beyond and
Forward Progress
Forward, Beyond
ARTICLE 1. Forward, beyond or in advance of, as related to either team,
denotes direction toward the opponent’s end line. Converse terms are
backward or behind.
Forward Progress
ARTICLE 2. Forward progress is a term indicating the end of advancement
by the ball carrier or airborne pass receiver of either team and applies to the
position of the ball when it became dead by rule (Rules 4-1-3-a, b and p;
Rules 4-2-1 and 4; and Rule 5-1-3-a Exception) (A.R. 5-1-3-I-VI and A.R.
8-2-1-I-IV) (Exception: Rule 8-5-1-a, A.R. 8-5-1-I)
Jan 5, 2011 2:42am
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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Jan 5, 2011 2:44 AM
when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.

He wasn't held so that his forward progress was stopped, HE BROKE THE TACKLE.
Jan 5, 2011 2:44am
D

dat dude

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Jan 5, 2011 2:47 AM
karen lotz;626428 wrote:He wasn't held so that his forward progress was stopped, HE BROKE THE TACKLE.

For the last time, the whistle should have been blown before the broken tackle. He was driven back 5 yards. BACKWARDS FIVE YARDS. If that does not denote "a ball carrier so held that his forward progress is stopped," then when does it apply? 7 yards? 10 yards? Or just keep driving them back until we see if he breaks the tackle?
Jan 5, 2011 2:47am
Q

queencitybuckeye

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Jan 5, 2011 6:28 AM
CinciX12;626413 wrote:It can't be this difficult. He broke the tackle. He broke the tackle. He broke the tackle.
Long after the whistle should have been blown. Long after the whistle should have been blown. Long after the whistle should have been blown.

You're right, this is easy.
Jan 5, 2011 6:28am
C

cats gone wild

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Jan 5, 2011 6:49 AM
Should of had the whistle blown and shouldnt of been a safety.
Jan 5, 2011 6:49am
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bases_loaded

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Jan 5, 2011 6:56 AM
The far linesman put his hand in the air as to mark the ball at the 3...then he is never heard from again...he doesn't get in the discussion with the two that made the horrific call. Worst call I have ever seen.
Jan 5, 2011 6:56am
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bases_loaded

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Jan 5, 2011 6:58 AM
karen lotz;626428 wrote:He wasn't held so that his forward progress was stopped, HE BROKE THE TACKLE.

He "broke" the tackle after being pushed 5 yards back into the endzone(from the 3 to 2 yards deep in the endzone). He was just playing till the whistle, like a good football player does. There would be a hell of a lot more fumbles if all refs used their whistles the same way and a hell of a lot more tackles for loss.
Jan 5, 2011 6:58am
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Scarlet_Buckeye

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Jan 5, 2011 9:19 AM
dat dude;626320 wrote:Terrible call. Whistle should have been blown after he was driven backwards 5 yards. No excuse.

This.
Jan 5, 2011 9:19am
LJ's avatar

LJ

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Jan 5, 2011 9:24 AM
Whistle should have been blown but it wasn't, so when he broke out of the tackle, it was a safety.
Jan 5, 2011 9:24am
C

centralbucksfan

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Jan 5, 2011 9:24 AM
It all has to do with the whistle, period. If it had blown, obviously. But it wasn't blown, thus the play continued..a safety. I don't think it was that bad of a call after watching real time/speed replay. Coulda went either way.
Jan 5, 2011 9:24am
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OneBuckeye

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Jan 5, 2011 9:24 AM
The whistle should have been blown, but since it wasn't when herron disengaged from the original tackler it became a safety. I think it is pretty cut and dry. OSU won that's all I care about /Thread.
Jan 5, 2011 9:24am
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BigAppleBuckeye

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Jan 5, 2011 9:39 AM
karen lotz;626205 wrote:If the ball carrier is still trying to fight for yardage yes.

Why wouldn't he fight for yardage? Even Pop Warner kids are taught to keep playing until the whistle is blown. The point is, the whistle SHOULD have been blown (NO safety), the result of that call should not be contingent on the ball carrier playing till the whistle or not.
Jan 5, 2011 9:39am
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karen lotz

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Jan 5, 2011 10:17 AM
centralbucksfan;626529 wrote:It all has to do with the whistle, period. If it had blown, obviously. But it wasn't blown, thus the play continued..a safety. I don't think it was that bad of a call after watching real time/speed replay. Coulda went either way.


THIS.

The only thing anyone can argue is that the whistle should have blown the play dead, and it should have. The problem that some of you are having is the fact that the whistle was not blown. ESPN even replayed it and the announcer said "Let's hear if the whistle was blown." It wasn't. Under those circumstances, it was a safety.
Jan 5, 2011 10:17am
T

Tiernan

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Jan 5, 2011 10:18 AM
^^^
those officials are so used to sucking they forgot to blow.
Jan 5, 2011 10:18am
karen lotz's avatar

karen lotz

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Jan 5, 2011 10:20 AM
Again, what would have been the sentiment if Herron broke the initial tackle was able to get around the corner and then ran for a 99 yard TD or whatever it would have been? Better yet what would the outrage be like if he escaped and was on his way down the sideline when the play was blown dead by a late whistle?
Jan 5, 2011 10:20am