Cleveland Buck wrote: According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for the universe to exist if it was not created by an external creator that is beyond the laws of our physical existence. What this creator did after that is up for debate, but we wouldn't be here if there wasn't one.

Would you like to cite an example of your claim?

capninsano wrote:

Cleveland Buck wrote: According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for the universe to exist if it was not created by an external creator that is beyond the laws of our physical existence. What this creator did after that is up for debate, but we wouldn't be here if there wasn't one.

Would you like to cite an example of your claim?

As quickly as I can, the Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The Law of Conservation of Matter states that matter cannot be created or destroyed. If a big bang created the universe, according to these laws, the matter and energy that is here now was here then. Where did it come from? If it couldn't have been created, it must have always been there. (Sounds a lot more ridiculous than believing a creator made it to me.)

Also, the second law of thermodynamics states that entropy in an isolated system increases over time until it reaches equilibrium. The universe is the only known example of an isolated system. Entropy is basically a measure (for lack of a better word) of the inability to do work. At maximum entropy, the system can't do anything anymore. So if you want to argue that the matter and energy that banged in the beginning was always there (I don't even know how you would argue that), as it sat there the entropy would increase until it could no longer bang.

Cleveland Buck wrote:

capninsano wrote:

Cleveland Buck wrote: According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for the universe to exist if it was not created by an external creator that is beyond the laws of our physical existence. What this creator did after that is up for debate, but we wouldn't be here if there wasn't one.

Would you like to cite an example of your claim?

As quickly as I can, the Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The Law of Conservation of Matter states that matter cannot be created or destroyed. If a big bang created the universe, according to these laws, the matter and energy that is here now was here then. Where did it come from? If it couldn't have been created, it must have always been there. (Sounds a lot more ridiculous than believing a creator made it to me.)

Also, the second law of thermodynamics states that entropy in an isolated system increases over time until it reaches equilibrium. The universe is the only known example of an isolated system. Entropy is basically a measure (for lack of a better word) of the inability to do work. At maximum entropy, the system can't do anything anymore. So if you want to argue that the matter and energy that banged in the beginning was always there (I don't even know how you would argue that), as it sat there the entropy would increase until it could no longer bang.

The most common theory is that the matter that currently makes up the universe has always existed in some form. As you correctly stated Matter can not be created or destroyed, it can only be transformed from one state to another. In application to the Big Bang that means that all the matter that exists in the universe as currently constituted as always existed. It just existed in different states before and after the Big Bang. As for what caused the inflation of the universe in the fraction of a second after the Big Bang there are dozens if not hundreds of hypotheses ranging from a chain reaction caused by the interrelation of protons, neutrons, photons, electrons, neutrinos ect. within the the primordial soup. On the other end of the spectrum I read a theory the proposed that there are an infinite number of universes on an infinite number of planes of existence and that the Big Bang was the result of two of these parallel universes making contact with each other and through that contact all matter in the universe would be transformed radiating out from the point of contact.

Cleveland buck,Isn't that string theory?

Cleveland Buck wrote:

capninsano wrote:

Cleveland Buck wrote: According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for the universe to exist if it was not created by an external creator that is beyond the laws of our physical existence. What this creator did after that is up for debate, but we wouldn't be here if there wasn't one.

Would you like to cite an example of your claim?

As quickly as I can, the Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The Law of Conservation of Matter states that matter cannot be created or destroyed. If a big bang created the universe, according to these laws, the matter and energy that is here now was here then. Where did it come from? If it couldn't have been created, it must have always been there. (Sounds a lot more ridiculous than believing a creator made it to me.)

Also, the second law of thermodynamics states that entropy in an isolated system increases over time until it reaches equilibrium. The universe is the only known example of an isolated system. Entropy is basically a measure (for lack of a better word) of the inability to do work. At maximum entropy, the system can't do anything anymore. So if you want to argue that the matter and energy that banged in the beginning was always there (I don't even know how you would argue that), as it sat there the entropy would increase until it could no longer bang.

I give you credit for trying to use science to prove the existance of a god or outside creator, most people just blindly believe whatever without really thinking about it. However, I find fault in your argument. You are operating on the assumption that what we know is absolute truth. We also once thought Newton's laws of physics were absolute truths because they held up to every experiment in our observable world. But when black holes and extremely massive objects came in the picture, those rules were proven wrong and Einstein modified them to form the theory of relativity. Then what we thought was the working model of the universe didn't hold up in the quantum world, thus quantum mechanics was born. Now we are trying to find a theory that unites both the extremely small and the extremely large. My point is, everything we have come up with so far has broken down in certain situations. What makes the laws of conservation of energy and matter any different? Especially when we are talking about the creation of the universe...something we know nothing about.

From what I remember it failed anyway. I don't know if they ever retried it yet. I guess people are affraid it could cause a black hole and suck us all into it.

No they just fixed it.As far as black holes goes yes they are counting on it.But they are so small and only appear for short times.

New article

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iJmp23Noi9381yIwpkUu7FWjS8lgD9C5PV9G1

Not that it matters, but all this mattering about this matter makes the gray matter between my ears, as a matter of fact, hurt.

If they are successful the space time continum will be breeched and you could end up being your own great grandpa. We as a free nation need to stop this type of rogue experimentation before dinosaurs are walking down Broadway. I'm serious people this is a very bad thing science is doing just because they can.

Yeah, next thing you know vaudeville will be dead and moving pictures will corrupt our minds. Curses.

Maybe we will go back in time to when we were a free nation.

Cleveland Buck wrote: Maybe we will go back in time to when we were a free nation.

I say we just go pre-civilization, now that's freedom.

Laugh all you want now gorocks, but you'll be singin a different tune when you are makin sweet sweet love to your own grandmother and in some vestigal part of your brain you KNOW it is really your grandmother and you just keep pumpin her anyway.

And the grandmother sex references come out, finally. Atom smasher :: grandmother banging?