majorspark;393181 wrote:Just because a girl is attractive does not mean they are engaging in these types of activities. Didn't someone post a study on here not too long ago that fat chicks were more likely to be sexually active?

Ok grandpa. Clearly going to have to go with both NAIVE and your daughter is ugly.

majorspark;393181 wrote:Just because a girl is attractive does not mean they are engaging in these types of activities. Didn't someone post a study on here not too long ago that fat chicks were more likely to be sexually active?

I know of two girls that are virgins. Two. I've gone through high school. I've been through 3 years of college. I know people of the past 3 classes in high school. Two. Total.
There are a number of girls who have had one or two, but they've usually always had one.

If your daughter really is a virgin, she's one of the rare ones.

pnhasbeen;393186 wrote:I know of two girls that are virgins. Two. I've gone through high school. I've been through 3 years of college. I know people of the past 3 classes in high school. Two. Total.
There are a number of girls who have had one or two, but they've usually always had one.

If your daughter really is a virgin, she's one of the rare ones.

She's not a virgin, the guy is delusional as hell.

majorspark;393181 wrote:Just because a girl is attractive does not mean they are engaging in these types of activities. Didn't someone post a study on here not too long ago that fat chicks were more likely to be sexually active?

majorspark;393182 wrote:Yeah thats the one.

Did you even read the study? Fat chicks are less likely to have sex, but more likely to get pregnant when having sex.

To that end, researchers found that, compared with normal weight women, obese women were 30% less likely to report having a sexual partner in the previous year, and obese women were half as likely as lower BMI peers to say that sexuality was an important component of their "personal life balance."

Among women under age 30, researchers noted that obese respondents were four times as likely to report having had an unplanned pregnancy or abortion compared with normal BMI-range peers. They also found that, compared to normal range BMI women, obese women were less likely to have spoken with a doctor in the previous year about options for contraception, were less likely to use the birth control pill or condoms, and were significantly more likely — 8 times more likely, specifically — to report using less effective contraception methods (such as "pulling out").

So to sum up... less likely to have sex, but more likely to be dumb about it.

So where will she be going to school so I can figure out what pole you have driven her to dance on.

pnhasbeen;393186 wrote:I know of two girls that are virgins. Two. I've gone through high school. I've been through 3 years of college. I know people of the past 3 classes in high school. Two. Total.
There are a number of girls who have had one or two, but they've usually always had one.

If your daughter really is a virgin, she's one of the rare ones.

Just because a girl is attractive does not mean she does not want to save herself for her husband. Maybe your hanging out with certain types of chicks.

majorspark;393198 wrote:Just because a girl is attractive does not mean she does not want to save herself for her husband. Maybe your hanging out with certain types of chicks.

I never said anything about attractiveness.
I am hanging out with a certain type of chick, the the girls 17-24. And from that group, which is very diverse in every aspect, there are two that are virgins.

pnhasbeen;393186 wrote:I know of two girls that are virgins. Two. I've gone through high school. I've been through 3 years of college. I know people of the past 3 classes in high school. Two. Total.
There are a number of girls who have had one or two, but they've usually always had one.

If your daughter really is a virgin, she's one of the rare ones.

Really depends on the area and HS, there are heckuva lot of people that went to my sister-in-law's school that barely dated, let alone engaged in any type of sexual activity. Private school with no real community since it attracts students within a 75 mile radius, families that are wealthy and protective and live in gated communities which also restricts opportunties, and most importantly IMO the students are so busy with other things to pad their applications to Harvard/Princeton/Yale/Stanford that they don't have time. My sister-in-law cared much more about horses and her shows that she did about boys, and it isn't as if there were a lot of good choices if she did, let's just say her senior prom date is now a theater major at Yale, and she had her first kiss with him, in front of hundreds of audience members in the school's production of "Oklahoma!"

Contrast that to my POS high school that had a teen pregnancy problem, there was nothing else to do in the community, and for many there were no expectations of going to college or doing anything than graduating HS, getting married and going to work (or in this economy, not going to work).

OP is trolling now.

majorspark;392453 wrote:
So what would some of you young guys do if you wanted to pursue a relationship with a girl and she said, "You need to personally ask my Dad first?" Am I out of touch or am I setting up a healthy tripwire?

While this would have been the norm 50 years ago, it's not anymore. Too many fish in the sea. About the LAST thing guys her age want to do is 'meet the parents' to get permission to go on a date with her...most guys don't even want to meet parents until they've been in a relationship for quite some time, let alone BEFORE they even go on a single date. Sorry but your daughter is going to come off as crazy. People her age tend to have relationships that don't last very long. That's the nature of being 18 years old. I barely know this girl, and before I can even get to know HER more I have to get to know her dad?? Weird. As I said, there are far too many girls out there that an 18 year old guy can try to get with where they don't have to run through an obstacle course first. You grow to love someone over time as you get to know them, thus making what you two have together "worth it". It's not "worth it" for a guy to have to do something like that if their relationship is only going to last a few weeks/months. I would be willing to bet that very, very, VERY few guys her age are going to do something like that when they could ask another girl they like out and NOT have to go through all that. I would do just about anything my girlfriend asked me to do now, because I've known her for 2 years and I know she's worth it. However, I would have thought she was crazy if she asked me to do this before I even went on a date with her.

And on the flip side, you asked 'if a guy can't clear this small hurdle in order to be with her, how is he going to provide and clear other obstacles in their relationship?' You have to look at the other side of the coin. If they're not even dating yet, and you're already asking him to do stuff like this, what else are you going to ask him to do? The whole situation is weird all the way around. You might find a guy willing to do it, and good for him if you do, but IMHO I would steer clear of that whole situation if I was a guy that liked her. Too much of that screams crazy girl/family/dad to me. I'm not saying you or she is, but that's how it's going to come off to most people.

As a side note, it's not unacceptable at all to want to meet the guy even if it makes him nervous or uncomfortable; it's supposed to. You want to make sure he's not a total douchebag or that she will be in some type of danger. However that's as far as it should go, meeting him, talking with him for a few and seeing what kind of a guy he is so you can tell her your impression of him later on if she wants it. However, asking for permission is way too much.

hoops23;392485 wrote:She agrees with your reasoning to your face, yes. However, you seem way to overbearing on her.

If she was 15 or 16 and you were doing this, that's 100% fine, but the fact that she's about to be 18 means she's going to be able to lead the life she wants to lead, with or without your permission.

You need to loosen up with her a bit, it's fine to ASK to meet the guy she would like to date, but to demand that he asks your permission is a little much, imo. Like somebody else mentioned, the guy is dating your daughter not you. If he's good enough in her eyes that's all that's going to matter, especially if you try to push him away. There are some things she's going to have to learn herself and finding the right guy is one of them. You're not going to be there all the time and you need trust her to become the adult you've raised her to become.

If you did your job for the first 17 years, she should be just fine going forward. If she's going to college she'll be in an environment where anything goes pretty much, as I'm sure you probably know. Like I said though, you won't be there for her then.

Good post.

Fab4Runner;392505 wrote:Maybe I'm a little too "modern" but I fail to see the issue with any girl having several serious relationships before she decides to marry. Or even beginning a serious relationship when she is young and not fully ready to setle down. It doesn't mean she will automatically want to get married at 19 or 20. Let her date who she wants to date (within reason...of course you do not want her in danger) and let her decide the type of man she wants to end up with.

I had three serious relationships before meeting my current boyfriend. Dating them has helped me become who I am and has taught me what I want and don't want in a guy. It's possible that I'd be at the same place I am now had I not dated my ex boyfriends...but it certainly didn't do any harm, either.

I think you're being a little too overbearing. Asking permission to marry is one thing...but to date? I wouldn't go that route. Maintain a good relationship with your daughter and the guys she decides to date and they'll likely spend more time around you, open up to you and you'll be more in the know. Being so protective right out of the gate will turn off most guys and they will just become scared or annoyed.

Good post.

majorspark;392686 wrote:As I stated I asked my daughter. It is a request not a forced requirement. The request was not in reference to occasional casual dating. She has done that, Proms, dances, movies etc. I am talking about wanting to pursue a serious relationship. I don't see it as overbearing especially since it is not a requirement. I just see it as a respectful thing to do. If my daughter decides to honor my request and a young man honors it as well great. If not, I will not hold it against him.

You say you won't hold it against him, but in the first post you say if he's not willing to jump the small hurdle, he's not worth it. So you would hold it against him.

enigmaax;392739 wrote:spark - You don't have to try and convince me that you are secure. You aren't, but it doesn't matter to me. I went back and re-read your original post and there's a couple of things that stand out a little more, especially given your response to me. You let her come and go as she pleases, no curfew, etc. Buuuut....you draw the line when it comes to another man in her life. Then you only trust her judgment "to a degree" and of course she doesn't know men like you do. It DOES show insecurity and frankly, it is really damn weird.

You say things like "to this point she has taken YOUR advice". If a guy can't ask YOUR permission then he isn't worthy of giving her the love YOU have given her. You are already trying to set roadblocks and rationalize why any guy she meets could not measure up to YOU. The whole damn post was about you and the issue is about you, not her.

Then you have this, "If he is unwilling to jump this small hurdle I have put up to have a relationship with my daughter, what hurdles will he be unwilling to overcome later in the relationship to provide for her happiness and well being?"

I would ask, if you insist on meddling in her personal life now, what hurdles are you going to cause when she does find the right guy? Honestly, you are no longer and nor should you expect to be any kind of authority to her when it comes to her personal life. The fact that she is okay with it now is probably less about her respect for you than it is about fear of you, even if it is just afraid of hurting your fragile little ego. And when she finally does get married, how easy is it going to be for her to balance all of your opinions, advice, and wish to control against her husband's thoughts and feelings?

I know plenty of people like this and though I'm being kind of blunt with my opinion (yeah, I could be wrong, but you asked), I'm really not just trying to be an ass. It has the potential to go way deeper than you expect and cause so many more problems in the long run. Nearly everyone has said it, the best thing to do is get used to the fact that she is going to make her own decisions and accept them without trying to be any type of authority on her personal life.

Good post.

majorspark;393066 wrote:Not weird at all. I have more life experience at this point. I know a few more things about life than she does. She is still 17 and has another year of high school yet. She can't even go on a field trip with out me siging a permission slip. I am a man and know quite a bit about how men think and she values my opinion from a male perspective. She also values my wifes opinion from a female perspective. Its as simple as that. I think your reading way too much into it. But I understand you can only go by a few words on an internet forum.

You are right, you do have more life experience than she does and you are going to limit her life experiences if you shelter her too much.

If you just want to meet a guy she is dating, that is one thing, but to request that a guy asks your permission to date her, that's a bit far-fetched.

If you feel you've raised her right, she will be fine. Just ask to meet the guy. If a guy is willing to meet the parents, that is your answer there; no need for him to ask permission. You should be able to get a good read on what kind of person and what his intentions are without his asking permission. JMO

dwccrew;393754 wrote:You are right, you do have more life experience than she does and you are going to limit her life experiences if you shelter her too much.

If you just want to meet a guy she is dating, that is one thing, but to request that a guy asks your permission to date her, that's a bit far-fetched.

If you feel you've raised her right, she will be fine. Just ask to meet the guy. If a guy is willing to meet the parents, that is your answer there; no need for him to ask permission. You should be able to get a good read on what kind of person and what his intentions are without his asking permission. JMO

I agree with this.

I'll also echo Manhattan's comments about area/HS being factors in dating/virginity. While my rural Ohio HS had plenty of dating and sex going on, that wasn't the case in Mrs. FFT's high school. Only a handful of students even dated (probably <5%, according to her)--most of the rest were busy prepping for college applications and filling out their resumes. It wasn't that they had anything against dating; it just wasn't a big priority for them as 16-17 year olds. Statistically, I think something like half of high school students have sex by the time they graduate (less so for girls, more so for guys), so some of what you guys are saying above can't be true.

enigmaax;392739 wrote:spark - You don't have to try and convince me that you are secure. You aren't, but it doesn't matter to me. I went back and re-read your original post and there's a couple of things that stand out a little more, especially given your response to me. You let her come and go as she pleases, no curfew, etc. Buuuut....you draw the line when it comes to another man in her life. Then you only trust her judgment "to a degree" and of course she doesn't know men like you do. It DOES show insecurity and frankly, it is really damn weird.

You say things like "to this point she has taken YOUR advice". If a guy can't ask YOUR permission then he isn't worthy of giving her the love YOU have given her. You are already trying to set roadblocks and rationalize why any guy she meets could not measure up to YOU. The whole damn post was about you and the issue is about you, not her.

Then you have this, "If he is unwilling to jump this small hurdle I have put up to have a relationship with my daughter, what hurdles will he be unwilling to overcome later in the relationship to provide for her happiness and well being?"

I would ask, if you insist on meddling in her personal life now, what hurdles are you going to cause when she does find the right guy? Honestly, you are no longer and nor should you expect to be any kind of authority to her when it comes to her personal life. The fact that she is okay with it now is probably less about her respect for you than it is about fear of you, even if it is just afraid of hurting your fragile little ego. And when she finally does get married, how easy is it going to be for her to balance all of your opinions, advice, and wish to control against her husband's thoughts and feelings?

I know plenty of people like this and though I'm being kind of blunt with my opinion (yeah, I could be wrong, but you asked), I'm really not just trying to be an ass. It has the potential to go way deeper than you expect and cause so many more problems in the long run. Nearly everyone has said it, the best thing to do is get used to the fact that she is going to make her own decisions and accept them without trying to be any type of authority on her personal life.

BEST POST ON THIS WHOLE THREAD

majorspark;393096 wrote:She would get a kick out of it. She knows I would not seriously consider anyones advice on an internet forum although some have made some good points. She shares my sense of humor and would laugh at those that think her Dad is some kind of ogre. When she knows just the opposite is true.

If you didn't want opinions, why did you post it?

I still believe you are questioning your daughters choice in peers. Who is going to date the person in the long run? You or your daughter? If my parents told me who to and not to date, I'd laugh in their face and I respect my parents.

Honestly, you are setting yourself up for a HUGE disaster. Either a) your daughter is going to rebel and become the drunk slut in college b) get pregnant during one of her first times during intercourse c) stay at home forever.

You have no right to put stipulations on how someone is to approach your daughter and ask for a relationship. Did you parents do the same? Did you ask your wives parents if you could date her?

You may be more experienced but no one knows what your daughters want more than her. Let her make her decisions. It's her life, not yours.

Good luck and I hope you won't be called Grandpa literally in a year or so.

FFT is right, the numbers of virgins around 17-18 years old don't coincide with all of your annecdotal evidence...

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=18

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/06/sexy-teen-trend-data/

The studies show at even nowadays, at 17 its more like "50/50" on virgins/non-virgins.

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/02/16/campus-sexperts.html

39% of freshmen college girls were virgins, 31% were still virgins by their senior year (or 12% of college senior women were still virgins).

I'm sorry guys, but all of your "anecdotal" evidences of "I didn't know anyone who was still a virgin" is not backed up by facts.

Keebler;393894 wrote:I still believe you are questioning your daughters choice in peers. Who is going to date the person in the long run? You or your daughter? If my parents told me who to and not to date, I'd laugh in their face and I respect my parents.

The conversation took place between my daughter and myself just after she got her drivers license. A drivers license gives a young person the freedom to be socially active without the aid of their parents transporting them. I took that time as an opportunity to express to her that she will be making her own decisions now that can have a great impact on the rest of her life. The values that I instilled in her growing up are now hers to live by if she so choses. I gave her advice on dating, relationships, marriage, college, etc.

During that conversation I made the request. Like I said before I asked. She thought it was strange, I gave her my thoughts as to why. She understood them, but probably thinks of it the same way Red_Skin_Pride put it in that she knows me personally but others that don't will probably think it is weird. Also to clear up what you mentioned above it never had anything to do with me choosing anyone. My daughter chooses and I affirm. Not that I would ever deny permission. Its kind of like the father "giving away the bride". Is he really hers at that point to give away? Its just a traditional honor we bestow on the father daughter relationship. What father would refuse to "give away" his daughter to the man she chooses.

I still think there is no harm in it as long it is not forced and depending on the age of a young lady. I doubt my daughter will even suggest it to any guy. Possibly if they got to know each other quite well. Either way she knows me and knows it will not bother me a bit if she choses not to pass it along to a guy.

Keebler;393894 wrote:Honestly, you are setting yourself up for a HUGE disaster. Either a) your daughter is going to rebel and become the drunk slut in college b) get pregnant during one of her first times during intercourse c) stay at home forever.

Not going to happen. It is not at all in her character to do so. Like I stated before. My daughter has more freedom from her parent's authority than most teenagers her age. I can't remember the last time I "forced" her to do anything except the damn dishes. I bought her her own car and she is free to come and go as she pleases. She does not have to tell us where she is going on weekends and social gatherings. We ask her to let us know so we know where to find her. But with cell phones that is not even that big of a deal because it is easy to track her down if we need to get a hold of her. She has no curfew but does need to let us know if she is going to be really late so we do not worry. She went to Florida during spring break with her 18yr old senior friends. Of all the other girls that were invited on the trip that were not 18 were not permitted to go along. She was the only 17yr old girl in the group. She has shown me great responsibily and my wife and I have allowed her great freedom.

Keebler;393894 wrote:You have no right to put stipulations on how someone is to approach your daughter and ask for a relationship. Did you parents do the same? Did you ask your wives parents if you could date her?

At this point legally I do in that she is not yet 18. But even at 16 when I asked her to consider it, I did not make it a requirement. She can't even have her own checking account without my wife or myself's signature. Yet I allow her much greater responsibility than even the law allows.

My parents should never have gotten married. They fought constantly, had affairs, divorced, and then used my brothers and I as pawns in their continueing war against each other. My dad worked midnights and mom cared only for herself and I spent a lot of time at my grandparents. I would say my family structure was pretty shitty. This experience has motivated me to provide my children with a true and solid family structure if I can help it.

Keebler;393894 wrote:You may be more experienced but no one knows what your daughters want more than her. Let her make her decisions. It's her life, not yours.

I think I have been pretty clear on this now.

Keebler;393894 wrote:Good luck and I hope you won't be called Grandpa literally in a year or so.

Not until she is married. That is the choice that she has made.

Keebler;393878 wrote:If you didn't want opinions, why did you post it?

I did't say I didn't want opinions. I said I would not seriously consider anyones advice in an internet forum. But I will say this there have been some really good points made.

I guess I was wanting to see what some of the youger guys thought of it.

jmog;394038 wrote:FFT is right, the numbers of virgins around 17-18 years old don't coincide with all of your annecdotal evidence...

http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=18

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/2010/06/sexy-teen-trend-data/

The studies show at even nowadays, at 17 its more like "50/50" on virgins/non-virgins.

http://www.newsweek.com/2008/02/16/campus-sexperts.html

39% of freshmen college girls were virgins, 31% were still virgins by their senior year (or 12% of college senior women were still virgins).

I'm sorry guys, but all of your "anecdotal" evidences of "I didn't know anyone who was still a virgin" is not backed up by facts.

Let's have that same study, but limit it to girls who are 6 or higher on the 1-10 scale. I bet that makes it less likely they are virgins, maybe not a HUGE change, but it will change a bit.

It's like how the average penis is like 5 inches or some shit and you got all those Asians running around with 3 inch peckers killing the average. Shit ain't right.

majorspark;394144 wrote:
I can't remember the last time I "forced" her to do anything except the damn dishes.

FINALLY, something we can all support.

pnhasbeen;394155 wrote:Let's have that same study, but limit it to girls who are 6 or higher on the 1-10 scale. I bet that makes it less likely they are virgins, maybe not a HUGE change, but it will change a bit.

It's like how the average penis is like 5 inches or some shit and you got all those Asians running around with 3 inch peckers killing the average. Shit ain't right.

Right, because that's not subjective at all...

So who decides if the girl is a 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 for your hypothetical study?

Did you even think that through?

How do you scientifically determine if a girl is a 6+?

You said you came here to get other young guys perspective, well I'm 26, have brothers who are 25 and 20 and a sister that's almost 16. So here's mine:

If I went out with a girl in HS who was 18 or anytime in college and she said that she wanted me to ask her dad to pursue a relationship, I would have said adios. There was no way I would do that. Not because I'm disrestectful, but because I would consider her to have a really weird family situation and it wouldn't be something I would want to be involved with.

But hey, that's just me. I can speak on behalf of my brothers and there is no way my dad or any of her brothers would ask that of a guy she was dating.

majorspark;394152 wrote:I did't say I didn't want opinions. I said I would not seriously consider anyones advice in an internet forum. But I will say this there have been some really good points made.

I guess I was wanting to see what some of the youger guys thought of it.

We all think you're a crazy, overprotective fool. There.

jmog;394186 wrote:Right, because that's not subjective at all...

So who decides if the girl is a 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 for your hypothetical study?

Did you even think that through?

How do you scientifically determine if a girl is a 6+?

You probably took my post more serious than I intended.

And you scientifically determine if a girl is a 6+ by measuring boob size, ass bouncy-ness, waist line, tongue length, facial construction, firmness of legs, and then have a table of experts(like me) who give them a rating.

jmog;394186 wrote:Right, because that's not subjective at all...

So who decides if the girl is a 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 for your hypothetical study?

Did you even think that through?

How do you scientifically determine if a girl is a 6+?

I bet if you cut out girls who are over 225 lbs the percentage shoots up.

thedynasty1998;394188 wrote:You said you came here to get other young guys perspective, well I'm 26, have brothers who are 25 and 20 and a sister that's almost 16. So here's mine:

If I went out with a girl in HS who was 18 or anytime in college and she said that she wanted me to ask her dad to pursue a relationship, I would have said adios. There was no way I would do that. Not because I'm disrestectful, but because I would consider her to have a really weird family situation and it wouldn't be something I would want to be involved with.

But hey, that's just me. I can speak on behalf of my brothers and there is no way my dad or any of her brothers would ask that of a guy she was dating.

Same here. I haven't been comfortable with even meeting a girl's parents until we had gotten to know each other a bit. Even though we all may think Majorspark a little crazy, it really depends on how his daughter handles it. If I asked a girl who was 18+ out on a date and she told me I had to ask her dad, I would begin to think there are major issues there. If a girl who is 18+ still feels she needs daddy's permission to carry on her ADULT life, then I think there are more problems that have been created in the past than we can even begin to fathom.