Lance Armstrong - I just don't get it

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member

3,345 posts 36 reps Joined Oct 2010

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:02 AM

I saw an article about Lance Armstrong this morning. Apparently he was interviewed on the Today show. There wasn't anything particularly interesting a bout it, but it got me thinking.

Okay, so this guy doped through his entire career including during his 7 Tour de France wins. And he is definitely is not the most likable person in the world. I know all that is the case. But the more I've learned about that sport and especially the era in which he rode, virtually every top rider doped. That's not hearsay. Lot's of those riders have come clean about it. It is clear that, at least at that time, it was a drug-fueled sport. Doping was necessary to even the playing field.

So I get that what Lance did was wrong. The doping sure. But the lying to everyone and then the efforts to silence those who tried to out him were the most egregious things. His efforts to discredit people though were not directed at a whole bunch of people. They were primarily directed at Frankie Andreu, the wife of one of his former teammates (who has acknowledged that he doped too). Frankie and Lance obviously hate each other and have a history of fighting. Ugly and messy as that is, it's really just a feud between two people - an egomaniac (Armstrong) and an attention-seeking victim (Andreu).

That's really the crux of things. Armstrong is not someone I would want to pal around with. But I honestly think his titanic fall and long-term disgrace are more a result of his unlikability rather than anything he actually did. His punishment seems extraordinarily disproportionate to his crime.

I guess I just can't believe this guy has the monster status he does all these years later. Am I missing something.

Automatik Senior Member

15,737 posts 99 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:05 AM

He's garbage.

vball10set paying it forward

26,788 posts 121 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:13 AM

posted by Automatik
He's garbage.

This

BR1986FB Senior Member

27,923 posts 126 reps Joined Feb 2010

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:16 AM

PED's should be made legal in sports, imo. Fans want to see bigger, faster, stronger but when an athlete gets popped there's a bunch of fake outrage. If HGH is going to help these NFL athletes bodies recover (it doesn't make them stronger, just helps with recovery) I have no issue with it.

As far as Armstrong goes, I agree that he's a turd in the fact that he put up the persona that he was clean and was some kind of 'Superman." It was the lying, not the PED use, that I think rubbed many the wrong way.

Spock Senior Member

5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:17 AM

Basically what he accomplished was amazing and probably was the best thing to ever happen to a fringe sport of cycling. Lance is trash but he still won 7 TDF titles against a bunch of dopers. All things were even up.

Its crazy to throw him under the bus for performance enhancement. Every pro sport from Golf, NFL, NBA, Olympics......are full of drug cheats.

Automatik Senior Member

15,737 posts 99 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:18 AM

Yeah, I don't even care that he doped. Vehemently denying it and attempting to ruin the people he worked with is why he's garbage. Fuck that guy.

Laley23 GOAT

33,369 posts 133 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 11:23 AM

Lance is a POS human. Don’t care that he doped. He lied when he got caught and threw everyone and anyone he knew under the bus to keep his image clean...all so he could keep making millions off his Livestrong brand. That’s the only reason he cared to be outed.

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member

3,345 posts 36 reps Joined Oct 2010

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 12:49 PM

Well I get all of your points about his throwing his close associates and teammates under the bus. A horrible thing to do for sure. I just don't understand why the guy is such a villan in the public's eye after paying an incredibly hefty price for his crimes. I really think it is because of his personality. Like I said, he is not a likable guy. But there are other pro athletes who have done horrible things and they able to be "forgivin" by the public. Case in point - Michael Vick.

I don't mean to sound like a Lance Armstrong apologist. I really don't care for the guy at all. But his accomplishments were incredible. He didn't cheat to win. He cheated to get to the baseline. If I had won like he did, I can see myself becoming obsessed with protecting my achievements and doing some very stupid things as a result.

Laley23 GOAT

33,369 posts 133 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 12:55 PM

Mike Vick actually came out and apologized and now does things to help animals. I’m pretty sure Lance is still telling people he was set up and how he is clean.

He also duped the American public out of millions based on a lie.

vball10set paying it forward

26,788 posts 121 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 1:28 PM

posted by Laley23

He also duped the American public out of millions based on a lie.

This right here is why he is still a pariah to the American public---that, and he was/is/always will be a dick

MontyBrunswick Senior Member

1,065 posts 17 reps Joined Mar 2015

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 3:24 PM

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member

3,345 posts 36 reps Joined Oct 2010

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 4:15 PM

Monty, that video sums it up perfectly. Well done.

Ironman92 Administrator

56,729 posts 168 reps Joined Nov 2009

Thu, Dec 6, 2018 9:49 PM

posted by Laley23
Mike Vick actually came out and apologized and now does things to help animals. I’m pretty sure Lance is still telling people he was set up and how he is clean.

He also duped the American public out of millions based on a lie.

This for me

Zunardo Senior Member

815 posts 15 reps Joined Nov 2010

Fri, Dec 7, 2018 9:11 AM

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie
But I honestly think his titanic fall and long-term disgrace are more a result of his unlikability rather than anything he actually did. His punishment seems extraordinarily disproportionate to his crime.

I guess I just can't believe this guy has the monster status he does all these years later. Am I missing something.

It's one thing to dope and keep your mouth shut. But Armstrong actually threatened people. He actually libeled and slandered people. He actually sued people successfully based on that lie. The Sunday Times in London was forced to pay him $1.3 million dollars ten years ago when he sued them because a reporter wrote an article suggesting he doped. He said on Oprah he was going to apologize to the reporter (who evidently did a ton of solid research to back up the article), but to date he never has. Armstrong did pay the money back to the newspaper. But from what I've read, he hasn't apologized to a lot of others whose lives he tried to ruin.

With apologies to Erich Segal, helping raise $300 million for cancer research apparently means never having to say you're sorry.

vball10set paying it forward

26,788 posts 121 reps Joined Nov 2009

Fri, Dec 7, 2018 9:20 AM

posted by Zunardo

With apologies to Erich Segal, helping raise $300 million for cancer research apparently means never having to say you're sorry.

I'm old enough tswydt...well played

Spock Senior Member

5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013

Fri, Dec 14, 2018 10:56 AM

http://www.letsrun.com/news/2018/12/the-big-chat-with-floyd-landis-part-1-is-there-any-hope-for-anti-doping-floyd-talks-doping-then-now-and-what-can-be-done/

Good read here. Only the winners are dopers.....right? The lesson here is just dont win the TDF and you can make a living being a doping cyclist.

Mulva Senior Member

13,797 posts 54 reps Joined Nov 2009

Sat, Dec 15, 2018 9:52 PM

I honestly didn’t know anyone still cared about him

gut Senior Member

18,369 posts 117 reps Joined Nov 2009

Sun, Dec 16, 2018 11:58 AM

posted by Zunardo
It's one thing to dope and keep your mouth shut. But Armstrong actually threatened people. He actually libeled and slandered people.

I'd never seen anyone so aggressively prop-up the lie. Most just deny, but yeah Lance actually sued people and got others blackballed.

I think one of the worst things he said was that after having cancer, he'd never take any drugs. He allegedly worried and asked the doctor if PEDs had caused his cancer....and then after going thru all that, he went right back to the drugs.

And the problem with allowing PEDs in sports is that it's not an equal playing field with all the money out there. Although I suppose you can say that's already the case with equipment, training, etc...But Lance also had the best doctors and drugs, so that was yet another advantage. And where it might make a difference is they had the money to dope the entire team, whereas other teams it might only be the top guys.

Lance Armstrong - I just don't get it

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