Progressives, part 3...

posted by kizer permanente

like every big city?

Ok?

posted by like_that

Ok?

What are you hung up on? 

That big cities overwhelmingly vote democrat? That more people equal more crime b/c of more chances of crime? I mean... it's been that way since civilization existed. Way before the word Democrat and Republican even existed. Or do you just enjoy false equivalences like QQ and CC?

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posted by kizer permanente

What are you hung up on? 

That big cities overwhelmingly vote democrat? That more people equal more crime b/c of more chances of crime? I mean... it's been that way since civilization existed. Way before the word Democrat and Republican even existed. Or do you just enjoy false equivalences like QQ and CC?

Not much, I was just trying to confirm if you actually think this is a good argument.  Thanks for the confirmation. 

posted by like_that

Not much, I was just trying to confirm if you actually think this is a good argument.  Thanks for the confirmation. 

I mean… it’s not an argument.  It’s equivalent to saying “most people take night classes at night” and chiming in with “yeah and it’s always dark at night too”.  You’re not wrong, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the assertion. 

posted by kizer permanente

I mean… it’s not an argument.  It’s equivalent to saying “most people take night classes at night” and chiming in with “yeah and it’s always dark at night too”.  You’re not wrong, but it doesn’t have anything to do with the assertion. 

QO and CC aside, do you actually believe if a particular party runs a city for 10, 20, 30, or 40+ years that they have no responsibility in high crime? 

posted by like_that

QO and CC aside, do you actually believe if a particular party runs a city for 10, 20, 30, or 40+ years that they have no responsibility in high crime? 

Do you think a different party will come in and make crime go away? The only chance you have of that is if most of the population decides to leave. You’re going to have more crime with more opportunity. Always, Forever. Until the end of time. Criminals aren’t attracted to bigger cities bc of their voting record lol. They’ll probably have more targets and more opportunity  in a city of a million vs a city of a thousand. You want crime to go away? Make everyone leave. it’ll go away. 

posted by kizer permanente

Do you think a different party will come in and make crime go away?

After a decade or several, wouldn't it be sensible to try the other guys?

posted by queencitybuckeye
After a decade or several, wouldn't it be sensible to try the other guys?

Nah I cant say it'd be sensible to try something everyone already knows wouldn't make a difference. Kinda the opposite of sensible, actually. 

Just like Jacksonville was brought up earlier... overall crime went down.. cool. Its still the murder capital of Florida. Even over Miami. Is that the republican mayors fault? Nah. Would it be sensible to change to a democrat to make it change? Nah I dont think so.

Do you really believe that liberal policing policies/funding and liberal prosecutors dropping or not bringing charges has no impact on increasing crime?  Obviously crime will always be there, but there are proven ways to mitigate it. 

posted by kizer permanente

Nah I cant say it'd be sensible to try something everyone already knows wouldn't make a difference. Kinda the opposite of sensible, actually. 

Just like Jacksonville was brought up earlier... overall crime went down.. cool. Its still the murder capital of Florida. Even over Miami. Is that the republican mayors fault? Nah. Would it be sensible to change to a democrat to make it change? Nah I dont think so.

You "know" that how, exactly?

posted by queencitybuckeye

You "know" that how, exactly?

The ability to look at written history? 

posted by iclfan2

Do you really believe that liberal policing policies/funding and liberal prosecutors dropping or not bringing charges has no impact on increasing crime?  Obviously crime will always be there, but there are proven ways to mitigate it. 

So what’s the issue in Jacksonville and Miami and other large republican led cities? Why haven’t those conservative policies gotten rid of crime? 

posted by kizer permanente

The ability to look at written history? 

The kind where often little changes, but occasionally some event causes a huge shift? Nah, better to do nothing and incorrectly cite "history".

It is interesting to see self proclaimed  libertarians feel so strongly that the government can and should keep them safe though. 

posted by kizer permanente

Do you think a different party will come in and make crime go away? The only chance you have of that is if most of the population decides to leave. You’re going to have more crime with more opportunity. Always, Forever. Until the end of time. Criminals aren’t attracted to bigger cities bc of their voting record lol. They’ll probably have more targets and more opportunity  in a city of a million vs a city of a thousand. You want crime to go away? Make everyone leave. it’ll go away. 

Ah, the old "It is what it is and we can't fix it or change it" defense.

Areas aren't high crime just because there are a lot of people. That's like saying there are a people just because there are a lot of buildings.

Since crime is measured by crime RATES (like per capita) it is mathematically "easier" to have "high crime rates" in smaller cities as you are dividing by a smaller number of people.

Take for instance NYC. Its REALLY easy to point out a shart drop in crime RATES from 1994 through about 2000, the years they did switch "parties" and had a republican mayor changing how and where policing was done. You may disapprove of the methods like "stop and frisk" etc but there is no denying the crime in NYC went down SHARPLY starting in 1994 when he became mayor of NYC.

Now, this is not saying I am a fan of RG, he has turned into a complete loon the last few years. But there isn't much denying he did good for NYC while mayor.

posted by kizer permanente

It is interesting to see self proclaimed  libertarians feel so strongly that the government can and should keep them safe though. 

Tell me you don't know what libertarianism is without telling me...

Libertarians aren't ok with lawlessness and crime, FYI. They typically want the government to only do what it was originally designed to do, protect the nation from enemies foreign and domestic. That means strong national defense and protecting citizens from criminals. All while said citizens have to protect themselves (2nd Amendment) from the criminals first as the police are not usually there in time.

See how that works? I know you are a smart person so this post I am quoting is kind of out of pocket for you. You do know that libertarians are for small government but they are not anarchists right?

posted by kizer permanente

So what’s the issue in Jacksonville and Miami and other large republican led cities? Why haven’t those conservative policies gotten rid of crime? 

I just said there will always be crime. But you see it playing out right in front of your face. Liberal policies of under policing and loser prosecutors have led to a RISE in crime. Now numerous cities are backtracking on those policies. 

posted by kizer permanente

So what’s the issue in Jacksonville and Miami and other large republican led cities? Why haven’t those conservative policies gotten rid of crime? 

Miami crime rate has dropped significantly since the current R mayor was elected.

Are you really just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it will stick without looking it up?

• The Miami FL crime rate for 2018 was 629.54 per 100,000 population, a 12.68% decline from 2017.
• The Miami FL crime rate for 2017 was 720.94 per 100,000 population, a 18.77% decline from 2016.
• The Miami FL crime rate for 2016 was 887.49 per 100,000 population, a 13.1% decline from 2015.
• The Miami FL crime rate for 2015 was 1021.31 per 100,000 population, a 3.65% decline from 2014.

In case your wondering, Jacksonville crime rate has declined steadily over the last 15 years or so except for 2 years it went up, both of those years are when a D was mayor. The rest of that 15 years pretty much was all R mayors.

posted by jmog

Tell me you don't know what libertarianism is without telling me...

Libertarians aren't ok with lawlessness and crime, FYI. They typically want the government to only do what it was originally designed to do, protect the nation from enemies foreign and domestic. That means strong national defense and protecting citizens from criminals. All while said citizens have to protect themselves (2nd Amendment) from the criminals first as the police are not usually there in time.

See how that works? I know you are a smart person so this post I am quoting is kind of out of pocket for you. You do know that libertarians are for small government but they are not anarchists right?

You mean the governments not out to get you after all?