queencitybuckeye;1802929 wrote:Need to look at the bad guys, not the tools.

So what do we do?

friendfromlowry;1802984 wrote:So what do we do?

Tens of thousands of people attempt to buy guns at gun stores and lie on the form that one must fill out. This is a crime, and with rare exception, not their first. Of those, the number of prosecutions is in the low hundreds.

friendfromlowry;1802984 wrote:So what do we do?

1) Put an end to profiling. If that leads to an uptick in crime (which I'm not sure is a certainty), so be it. It's what the community wants.

2) Saw an interesting suggestion that there is little need for police interaction at routine traffic stops - run the plates, snap a pic, and mail the fine. Stolen vehicles and reckless driving/DUI is obviously a different issue.

3) All juries should reflect the diversity of the country - THAT is a jury of your peers (and if that requires change of venue, so be it).

4) Decriminalize (not legalize) drugs

5) Prosecutors should be accountable for racial and socioeconomic inequities in plea bargains, but I'm not sure how you evaluate that (studies exist, but that is not a feasible option).


The two biggest issues here are perception of racism and bias in the justice system when a big part of that is simply socioeconomic inequities, and that perception will persist so long as African Americans remain disproportionately poor. The other issue is that violent crimes are more concentrated in poor urban areas, which leads to increased police presence, and increased police interactions....primarily a result of gangs and drugs. Problem is I don't know if you can really break the gangs (which Chicago did, to disastrous results) without legalizing drugs.

The first 4 above would seem to be pretty quick, easy fixes that could have a significant impact.

queencitybuckeye;1802986 wrote:Tens of thousands of people attempt to buy guns at gun stores and lie on the form that one must fill out. This is a crime, and with rare exception, not their first. Of those, the number of prosecutions is in the low hundreds.

That's interesting. At least in big cities, cops tend to be so busy with violent crimes that little else gets investigated/followed-up.

gut;1802988 wrote:2) Saw an interesting suggestion that there is little need for police interaction at routine traffic stops - run the plates, snap a pic, and mail the fine. Stolen vehicles and reckless driving/DUI is obviously a different issue.

The first 4 above would seem to be pretty quick, easy fixes that could have a significant impact.

I don't remember if this was a state-wide issue, but last year people fought long and hard to do away with red-light cameras because they were considered unfair. I think many would share the same objections here. Also, this doesn't have much impact on some of the more high profile cases of the past like Alton Sterling, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, etc.

friendfromlowry;1802992 wrote:I don't remember if this was a state-wide issue, but last year people fought long and hard to do away with red-light cameras because they were considered unfair. I think many would share the same objections here. Also, this doesn't have much impact on some of the more high profile cases of the past like Alton Sterling, Freddie Gray, Michael Brown, etc.

Yeah sorry gut, but recommendation #2 can go fuck itself. I will never be in support of camera tickets, they are complete bullshit.

gut;1802989 wrote:That's interesting. At least in big cities, cops tend to be so busy with violent crimes that little else gets investigated/followed-up.

Understandable to a degree, but what's the saying about an ounce of prevention?

like_that;1802993 wrote:Yeah sorry gut, but recommendation #2 can go fuck itself. I will never be in support of camera tickets, they are complete bullshit.

I don't really see a difference from the cop physically getting out of his car to cite or warn you. You're still getting pulled over - that's different from a red light camera.

But on second thought, it's the only way to enforce people are not driving with a suspended license or without insurance.

gut;1802995 wrote:I don't really see a difference from the cop physically getting out of his car to cite or warn you. You're still getting pulled over - that's different from a red light camera.

But on second thought, it's the only way to enforce people are not driving with a suspended license or without insurance.

For one thing, a person would remember the details better if he/she wanted to challenge something in court. If one receives a pic and fine in the mail a few weeks later, what are the chances of remembering the details?

It would have to be only a fine, and not go into your driving record, because there is no way to prove who was driving.

In reality, the first 2 and really 3, of what you suggested is feasible.

Laley23;1802998 wrote:It would have to be only a fine, and not go into your driving record, because there is no way to prove who was driving.

Actually, the article I read was, I suppose, referring specifically to "fix it" tickets. It was prompted by the MN guy being stopped for an alleged broken tail light. Of course, that's an excuse for profiling, and that appears to be the exact reason he was stopped.

But if you honestly cease to profile, then this particular idea is pointless.

gut;1802999 wrote:Actually, the article I read was, I suppose, referring specifically to "fix it" tickets. It was prompted by the MN guy being stopped for an alleged broken tail light. Of course, that's an excuse for profiling, and that appears to be the exact reason he was stopped.

But if you honestly cease to profile, then this particular idea is pointless.

Well, it's literally impossible to stop profiling. Unless we eliminate the human aspect of police offers. They are going to profile on what they see every day, and, unfortunately, that means...

Argue with police officer about BLM on Facebook, go to his house and try to enter, what do you think the end result is going to be?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fatal-police-shooting-black-lives-000000007.html


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Also 21 police injured in St. Paul last night, and an officer had a concrete block dropped from above and breaking his vertebrate. This shit is outrageous. Only a mentally retarded person would think that acting this way and protesting on highways is a way to change what may or may not be an actual problem.


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gut;1802999 wrote:Of course, that's an excuse for profiling, and that appears to be the exact reason he was stopped.

The dude had been pulled over 30 some times, how can you say that pulling someone over for a broken tail light is profiling? I got pulled over for the same thing not driving some shitty car. Cops get paid to give out dumbass tickets.


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iclfan2;1803004 wrote:The dude had been pulled over 30 some times, how can you say that pulling someone over for a broken tail light is profiling? I got pulled over for the same thing not driving some shitty car. Cops get paid to give out dumbass tickets.

Is this serious? He has obviously been profiled in the past.

Leaks(?) of the officer's audio call (not confirmed) said "I'm pulling someone over...I have cause". That was it. Also he thought the driver matched description of two guys who robbed a gas station a few days earlier because they driver had dreads and "a wide nose".

gut;1802988 wrote:1) Put an end to profiling. If that leads to an uptick in crime (which I'm not sure is a certainty), so be it. It's what the community wants.

I hope this never happens. It's too bad, but it's an unfortunate necessity of law enforcement from local municipalities to national security. Profiling is inherent, and we all do it on some level every day--that's a fact.

gut;1803005 wrote:Is this serious? He has obviously been profiled in the past.

Leaks(?) of the officer's audio call (not confirmed) said "I'm pulling someone over...I have cause". That was it. Also he thought the driver matched description of two guys who robbed a gas station a few days earlier because they driver had dreads and "a wide nose".

Or they run his plates and see he's been ticketed multiple times. I sure hope the police are "profiling" known rule breakers.

Do black people ever take responsibility for their own actions?

sleeper;1803020 wrote:
Do black people ever take responsibility for their own actions?

No.

like_that;1803021 wrote:No.

I don't mean to imply that only black people seem to lack accountability for their own actions but they seem to use the "race card" so much its beyond the point of credibility.

I'm also tired of people implying that I am a racist because I don't seem outraged by these deaths or asking a simple question of "Why do we only hear of black people dying by cops when white people die by cops all the time. Why do we never know any of their names?"

It's an agenda and a narrative. That and the fact that once the facts come out of the case, more often than not it seems the police officer acted appropriately.

iclfan2;1803003 wrote:Also 21 police injured in St. Paul last night, and an officer had a concrete block dropped from above and breaking his vertebrate. This shit is outrageous. Only a mentally retarded person would think that acting this way and protesting on highways is a way to change what may or may not be an actual problem.


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I'm not an Obama hater but honestly he shares a big part of the blame. Why is the POTUS commenting on individual police shootings before they've even been investigated by authorities? Not only is it beneath the office but it also lends credibility to the to the racist narrative and provides a green light for rioters to rally around. Sending in the DOJ to assist the investigation is one thing but he needs end commenting on these cases until the investigation is complete.

sleeper;1803023 wrote:I'm not an Obama hater but honestly he shares a big part of the blame. Why is the POTUS commenting on individual police shootings before they've even been investigated by authorities? Not only is it beneath the office but it also lends credibility to the to the racist narrative and provides a green light for rioters to rally around. Sending in the DOJ to assist the investigation is one thing but he needs end commenting on these cases until the investigation is complete.

Obama has the opportunity to encourage blm to take on useful tasks instead of blocking highways and causing other problems, and he never does that. If they spent the weekend marching through the south side of Chicago, maybe lives would be saved in those neighborhoods. They could educate people on how to behave when interacting with police, but that is never done.

sleeper;1803023 wrote:I'm not an Obama hater but honestly he shares a big part of the blame. Why is the POTUS commenting on individual police shootings before they've even been investigated by authorities? Not only is it beneath the office but it also lends credibility to the to the racist narrative and provides a green light for rioters to rally around. Sending in the DOJ to assist the investigation is one thing but he needs end commenting on these cases until the investigation is complete.

Because he is an agitator, not a leader.

Sad.

Keeping race front and center in this country - and painting the Repub party as racist - wins election for Dems. If they lost even 20% of the minority vote they receive in overwhelming numbers, they get crushed in every election at every level.

And the Dems have even less ideas and "solutions" than they do for healthcare. But why would they really want to fix something that they need to keep winning elections?

gut;1803034 wrote:Keeping race front and center in this country - and painting the Repub party as racist - wins election for Dems. If they lost even 20% of the minority vote they receive in overwhelming numbers, they get crushed in every election at every level.

And the Dems have even less ideas and "solutions" than they do for healthcare. But why would they really want to fix something that they need to keep winning elections?

This would also explain the media connection as well.