The simple fact that Flynn's COACH (now on Dolphins staff) wouldn't convince his team to offer a bigger contract than Seattle did should tell you a lot about his ability. The actual deal is something like 3 years for $19M with $10M guaranteed and up to $7M in achievement-based incentives. That's chump change for a starting quarterback, which really shows how very little interest there was in his services. The Browns are smart for not wasting money on a guy who would be little to no upgrade over McCoy.

shook_17;1120234 wrote:^^ they offered him 35 million. Good chunk of change if you ask me

At 7 mil per year he'd be around the 18th paid WR. That's about the max I'd pay for Garcon. The Colts are smart for not offering more.

lhslep134;1120156 wrote:Stop avoiding my question....which WR's contract would you like to have on our books?

Garcon's 10th highest WR contract?
Vincent Jackson's 3rd highest?

http://www.spotrac.com/top-salaries/nfl/average/wide-receiver/

Both of those are terrible contracts and overpayments. The Browns need to manage their money better than throwing top 10 money on a WR who isn't near top 10 or top 3 money at a WR who isn't top 3.

So, if you could finally answer my question instead of intentionally being vague and avoiding it, it would make debating you a lot easier.

Im not avoiding any question. I would have signed ANY OF THEM. Wonder why the Browns suck? Because they are conservative and afraid to spend the money that they have!! Who really cares if you overpay. Everybody overpays if it means the difference in taking your team to the next level.

Bengals reached an agreement with safety Reggie Nelson

Pick6;1120247 wrote:Im not avoiding any question. I would have signed ANY OF THEM. Wonder why the Browns suck? Because they are conservative and afraid to spend the money that they have!! Who really cares if you overpay. Everybody overpays if it means the difference in taking your team to the next level.

Glad you are not the gm.

OQB;1120211 wrote:I don't mind building throught the draft...but at the rate we are on, these draft picks will be at the end of their contracts and leaving town. At some point we have to fill some of our positions of need with FA's...and I thought this year was a good time to get a young veteran WR/OL to fill some holes and try to get this team to the playoffs.

Unless they use the mid-90s/Cleveland Indians model and lock them up long-term before their rookie contracts expire. They may not have made a "splash" in free agency but besides the two they have signed, they have also re-signed Thomas, Rubin, DQ, Gocong & Patterson to long-term deals. They have their "core" players locked up. Expect Alex Mack to be next.

Keep in mind that next year there WILL be a salary "floor." Unless they lock up guys like Haden, TJ Ward, etc to long-term deals they WILL have to spend. If they don't do anything with their remaining money this year they will likely have $15 million+ roll over to next year PLUS whatever spike the salary cap gets. They will HAVE to spend.

With Flynn going to Seattle, all that's left is Miami. They will have to choose between Alex Smith or Matt Hasselbeck, depending on Manning's choice. If they pass on both there might be a chance for a trade down but that's still debateable.

like_that;1120268 wrote:Glad you are not the gm.

ha, enjoy saving "your" money and enjoy mediocrity the rest of your life.

Pick6;1120247 wrote:Im not avoiding any question. I would have signed ANY OF THEM. Wonder why the Browns suck? Because they are conservative and afraid to spend the money that they have!! Who really cares if you overpay. Everybody overpays if it means the difference in taking your team to the next level.

Up for debate...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/nfls_track_record_on_building.html

Pick6;1120247 wrote:Who really cares if you overpay. Everybody overpays

The good teams don't overpay because it's not the smart move. I'd rather make the smart move that pisses off fans like you who don't seem to understand better than throw a bunch of money at players not worth it and handcuff my team (see Redskins)

BR1986FB;1120279 wrote:Up for debate...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/nfls_track_record_on_building.html

It can be debated in circles all you want. I've stated my opinion and you guys can have yours.

I'm just saying the current paradigm obviously isnt working for the Browns, even though it might for some other teams. I like how this organization drafts, but not a fan of how passive they have been in free agency. By the time these drafted players develop, Lerner will already be tired of Heckert, Holmgren, Shurmur and they will be gone, leaving the Browns to start over from scratch, AGAIN.

Pick6;1120278 wrote:ha, enjoy saving "your" money and enjoy mediocrity the rest of your life.
/sleeper

FIFY

Yup the Packers, Pats, Giants, and Steelers all are very successful because they overpay FA's. /sarcasm

Redskins have done REALLY well ever since Snyder has been overpaying for FAs 12 years ago. /sarcasm

People are going to have to face facts, this team is building for the LONG haul. Hey...it pisses me off just as anyone else that they aren't going after a few mid-tier guys at positions where they could start (RT/WR...mid-tier guys, I'm not talking Mario Williams types) but it's the way they are going to do it. In the process we are going to continue to watch an inferior product on the field untils holes are filled and these guys gell.

like_that;1120289 wrote:FIFY

Yup the Packers, Pats, Giants, and Steelers all are very successful because they overpay FA's. /sarcasm

Redskins have done REALLY well ever since Snyder has been overpaying for FAs 12 years ago. /sarcasm

Those teams dont have to overpay because they have a track record of success which makes players willing to come there and stay there.

Pick6;1120291 wrote:Those teams dont have to overpay because they have a track record of success which makes players willing to come there and stay there.

The Packers only had 3 FA signings the past 5 years lol. Also their track record of success is a result of their drafting.

Pick6;1120291 wrote:Those teams dont have to overpay because they have a track record of success which makes players willing to come there and stay there.

I don't think Thomas, DQ, Gocong, Rubin & Patterson had a problem "staying here."

BR1986FB;1120279 wrote:Up for debate...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/03/nfls_track_record_on_building.html

Debatable? Yes, but the data clearly trends toward successful teams building through draft not FA.

The longer this goes on, the cynic in me thinks that Holmgren is fine with another shitty year to continue building a base so that he can fire Shumur, and come down from the booth and coach the team himself next year.....especially if we are in a position to draft a kid like Barkley.

I think he hired Shurmur to serve as his sacrificial lamb last year to bridge the gap until there was enough talent here he could actually win with them himself.

I could be totally wrong, but he would be the best coaching candidate out there we could get.

They are arrogant in Berea, but not even they could sell giving Shurmur a 3rd year if he posts back to back 4-12 seasons. The fans would eat them alive.

It would be a huge stain on Mike's resume to walk away from the game having produced such a shitty product in Cleveland, so I think as a last resort he comes down from the booth if this year goes as many suspect it might.

Pick6;1120287 wrote:I've stated my opinion and you guys can have yours.

.

Fine, but you're stating your opinion in the face of facts that blatantly go against it.

IggyPride00;1120302 wrote:The longer this goes on, the cynic in me thinks that Holmgren is fine with another shitty year to continue building a base so that he can fire Shumur, and come down from the booth and coach the team himself next year.....especially if we are in a position to draft a kid like Barkley.

I think he hired Shurmur to serve as his sacrificial lamb last year to bridge the gap until there was enough talent here he could actually win with them himself.

I could be totally wrong, but he would be the best coaching candidate out there we could get.

They are arrogant in Berea, but not even they could sell giving Shurmur a 3rd year if he posts back to back 4-12 seasons. The fans would eat them alive.

It would be a huge stain on Mike's resume to walk away from the game having produced such a shitty product in Cleveland, so I think as a last resort he comes down from the booth if this year goes as many suspect it might.

That's what I was implying in post #4050 without saying "Holmgren's coming out of his loge."

IggyPride00;1120302 wrote:The longer this goes on, the cynic in me thinks that Holmgren is fine with another ****ty year to continue building a base so that he can fire Shumur, and come down from the booth and coach the team himself next year.....especially if we are in a position to draft a kid like Barkley.

I think he hired Shurmur to serve as his sacrificial lamb last year to bridge the gap until there was enough talent here he could actually win with them himself.

I could be totally wrong, but he would be the best coaching candidate out there we could get.

They are arrogant in Berea, but not even they could sell giving Shurmur a 3rd year if he posts back to back 4-12 seasons. The fans would eat them alive.

It would be a huge stain on Mike's resume to walk away from the game having produced such a ****ty product in Cleveland, so I think as a last resort he comes down from the booth if this year goes as many suspect it might.

I would be ALL FOR Holgrem coming down from the box and taking over the headset.

lhslep134;1120300 wrote:Debatable? Yes, but the data clearly trends toward successful teams building through draft not FA.

The quote "debateable" was in response to Pick 6's "gotta use free agency" comment. A lot of teams have done well without it.

BR1986FB;1120309 wrote:The quote "debateable" was in response to Pick 6's "gotta use free agency" comment. A lot of teams have done well without it.

Yeah I know I was just re-iterating that while FA can fix some holes, overpaying is fatal.

lhslep134;1120314 wrote:Yeah I know I was just re-iterating that while FA can fix some holes, overpaying is fatal.

But on the positive side I hear David Buehler is available....

lhslep134;1120314 wrote:Yeah I know I was just re-iterating that while FA can fix some holes, overpaying is fatal.

Something the Browns know nothing about since they have never done it. The last 14 years have been fatal, it's time to spend some money.