Penn State planning for Paterno's departure amid scandal

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bigkahuna

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Nov 9, 2011 11:04 PM
Skyhook79;965809 wrote:Did you read the GJ testimony where an investigator and 2 Police detectives interviewed Sandusky in 1998 and he admitted to being naked in the shower with a 10 yr old and probaly touched his genitals? or the part about the 2 Janitors, 1 who witnessed Sandusky giving oral to a 12 yr old boy and said it was more disturbing to him than being in Korea and seeing guts blown up around him, yet NEITHER of them reported the incident to the Police or anyone at PSU?
Yes, but I was referring to Writer specifically. I've read some other posts from you and agree with you. There were several other people that are FAR MORE responsible than Joe Pa in this matter. Joe Pa was a scapegoat.
Nov 9, 2011 11:04pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 9, 2011 11:10 PM
bigkahuna;965835 wrote:Yes, but I was referring to Writer specifically. I've read some other posts from you and agree with you. There were several other people that are FAR MORE responsible than Joe Pa in this matter. Joe Pa was a scapegoat.
Definition of scapegoat: "a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place."

Paterno isn't being blamed for raping kids, he isn't on trial (yet). He's being punished for his inaction and lack of leadership.
Nov 9, 2011 11:10pm
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bigkahuna

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Nov 9, 2011 11:12 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;965852 wrote:Definition of scapegoat: "a person or group made to bear the blame for others or to suffer in their place."

Paterno isn't being blamed for raping kids, he isn't on trial (yet). He's being punished for his inaction and lack of leadership.
How many other people fit the bolded part?
Nov 9, 2011 11:12pm
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Skyhook79

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Nov 9, 2011 11:15 PM
bigkahuna;965855 wrote:How many other people fit the bolded part?
and went unpunished.
Nov 9, 2011 11:15pm
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Writerbuckeye

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Nov 9, 2011 11:24 PM
Well, if Paterno, the president, the AD and the former VP have now all been let go, that pretty much takes care of everyone who was in that chain of command Paterno used as an excuse not to call police.

It's a good start.

I have to assume McQueary has been let go or will be, too.

The investigations are continuing, so it's possible others will be found who knew what was going on and didn't act and, if so, will also face consequences.
Nov 9, 2011 11:24pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 9, 2011 11:24 PM
bigkahuna;965855 wrote:How many other people fit the bolded part?
Which has what to do with Paterno?

I'm flabbergasted. Do you guys even have a point here? Skyhook accuses me of not being a lawyer (not that I'm proud of it but I am) and I see weak defenses of Paterno, but is there any real defense? So he sucked less and wasn't more of a monster than other people? Is that it?
Nov 9, 2011 11:24pm
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bigkahuna

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Nov 9, 2011 11:35 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;965880 wrote:Which has what to do with Paterno?

I'm flabbergasted. Do you guys even have a point here? Skyhook accuses me of not being a lawyer (not that I'm proud of it but I am) and I see weak defenses of Paterno, but is there any real defense? So he sucked less and wasn't more of a monster than other people? Is that it?
It has everything to do with Paterno. People want to point the finger for not doing enough. He did enough with the information given from the GJ. I spoke with someone in law enforcement regarding the matter. IF Joe Pa had called the police, they would have went straight to the GA since he was the eye witness, which should have happened in the first place.

Paterno did what he was obligated and expected to do. Like I've said before, there is protocol that has to be followed in the realm of education when child abuse occurs. You cannot fault Paterno for doing so and the higher ups for not doing so. The higher ups allowed him to keep access to facilities. The higher ups ignored what Paterno/GA stated and twisted it into something less severe. The high ups broke the law for not reporting it as stated by Pennsylvania Law.
Nov 9, 2011 11:35pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 9, 2011 11:43 PM
" IF Joe Pa had called the police, they would have went straight to the GA since he was the eye witness, which should have happened in the first place."

Umm, exactly.
Nov 9, 2011 11:43pm
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bigkahuna

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Nov 9, 2011 11:53 PM
Manhattan Buckeye;965906 wrote:" IF Joe Pa had called the police, they would have went straight to the GA since he was the eye witness, which should have happened in the first place."

Umm, exactly.
Don't confuse my words. I'm talking about the GA that saw it with his eyes.
Nov 9, 2011 11:53pm
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 9, 2011 11:59 PM
bigkahuna;965922 wrote:Don't confuse my words. I'm talking about the GA that saw it with his eyes.
I'm not confusing anything. Cops act on hearsay all the time. If an "anonymous" tip comes in that someone saw some guy raping a kid, the cops would investigate.
Nov 9, 2011 11:59pm
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Mulva

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Nov 9, 2011 11:59 PM
bigkahuna;965732 wrote:B.O.T member is doing a great job at dodging these questions. Someone asked him if he was concerned about backlash from students who were already protesting. He said "They'll act appropriately." He's in for a rude awakening.
lol'd at the naivety. Thanks for answering the questions I posed. Appreciate the insight.
Manhattan Buckeye;965906 wrote:" IF Joe Pa had called the police, they would have went straight to the GA since he was the eye witness, which should have happened in the first place."

Umm, exactly.
Due to the course of action Paterno took, the GA met with the man who has oversight of university police. It should have accomplished the very same goal. That it didn't is NOT on Paterno.

The only issue I have with him is that he (apparently) didn't follow up. Which is why I'm OK with him being fired. But personally I don't think it makes him a "monster".

Anyway, I appreciate your insight into the questions I asked too. I personally disagree with you big time re: #1 (even if McQ didn't directly intercede he should have definitively called the cops, that results in the boy being identified and treated, the examination hopefully results in evidence of assault, and the whole thing ends right there. I'm 22 right now and I wouldn't expect any "support" if I saw something like that and responded by running to my office to hide), but you made some interesting points.
Nov 9, 2011 11:59pm
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bigkahuna

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Nov 10, 2011 12:27 AM
No problem Mulva.

Like I said before, it's not even close to the same thing, but I think I'm the only person here that can somewhat say I've been where Joe Pa was
Nov 10, 2011 12:27am
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 10, 2011 1:10 AM
bigkahuna;966000 wrote:No problem Mulva.

Like I said before, it's not even close to the same thing, but I think I'm the only person here that can somewhat say I've been where Joe Pa was
Big Kahuna, I mean no offense. Really. But you aren't in the same place as Joe Paterno, no more than you or I are/were in the same place as Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Larry Ellison.

Joe Paterno was the figurehead of the program. I can't believe nothing happened there without him not knowing about it. For Christ's sake who did McCreary turn to first? It wasn't the AD, or the Pres, it was Paterno.
Nov 10, 2011 1:10am
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Mulva

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Nov 10, 2011 1:13 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;966059 wrote:For Christ's sake who did McCreary turn to first? It wasn't the AD, or the Pres, it was Paterno.
Actually it was his dad. His dad told him to go to Paterno.
Nov 10, 2011 1:13am
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 10, 2011 1:19 AM
Mulva;966061 wrote:Actually it was his dad. His dad told him to go to Paterno.
So TWO people went to Paterno.

Here is the message board of a real University:

http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/general/
Nov 10, 2011 1:19am
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Mulva

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Nov 10, 2011 1:26 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;966066 wrote:So TWO people went to Paterno.

Here is the message board of a real University:

http://www.thesabre.com/message_board/general/
If there was a point being made there I don't get it.
Nov 10, 2011 1:26am
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 10, 2011 1:29 AM
Mulva;966069 wrote:If there was a point being made there I don't get it.
Who decided to go to Paterno first?

1) McQueary's father

2) McQueary

Hence my post.

Next question?
Nov 10, 2011 1:29am
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Mulva

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Nov 10, 2011 1:33 AM
I was more referring to the "here's the message board of a real university" comment. I don't really get where that came from, or how it applied.

I actually managed to figure out that father + son = 2 people.
Nov 10, 2011 1:33am
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 10, 2011 1:35 AM
Mulva;966079 wrote:I was more referring to the "here's the message board of a real university" comment. I don't really get where that came from, or how it applied.

I actually managed to figure out that father + son = 2 people.
Because the University of Virginia wouldn't tolerate this. Hell, there are talks of canceling the game next season. That may be premature, but the pathetic attempt to rationalize this behavior is incredible.
Nov 10, 2011 1:35am
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Mulva

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Nov 10, 2011 1:44 AM
Manhattan Buckeye;966085 wrote:Because the University of Virginia wouldn't tolerate this. Hell, there are talks of canceling the game next season. That may be premature, but the pathetic attempt to rationalize this behavior is incredible.
It's pretty clear that Penn State isn't tolerating this either, so I still don't really get it. Are you referring to the students?
Nov 10, 2011 1:44am
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 10, 2011 1:49 AM
Mulva;966089 wrote:It's pretty clear that Penn State isn't tolerating this either, so I still don't really get it. Are you referring to the students?
No.

I'm referring to those that don't think JoePa should have been fired.

Unlike others, I try to be clear. Am I unclear?

If so, I'll repeat it. JOEPA NEEDED TO BE FIRED! He didn't do enough with his position, and failed many young boys.

Am I unclear?
Nov 10, 2011 1:49am
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Mulva

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Nov 10, 2011 1:59 AM
Actually, that series of posts was quite unclear. You (incorrectly) stated that McQueary went right to Paterno when he actually called dad first, then randomly posted a link to a Virginia message board and stated that the University of Virginia wouldn't tolerate this, which somehow was related to the people that don't believe JoePa should have been fired.

The part about you feeling he needed to be fired is clear though.
Nov 10, 2011 1:59am
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Manhattan Buckeye

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Nov 10, 2011 2:04 AM
"Actually, that series of posts was quite unclear. You (incorrectly) stated that McQueary went right to Paterno when he actually called dad first"

What was unclear about that? I told the story as the record reported.

Two guys went to Paterno first. Not the cops. Not the FBI. Not child services.

What is your point? What did Paterno do/not do?

If I am confusing, I'd question your competence in English. There is nothing unclear about my posts. JoePa needed to be fired earlier, he's fired now, I'm satisfied with the action.
Nov 10, 2011 2:04am
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dwccrew

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Nov 10, 2011 2:09 AM
lhslep134;965029 wrote:So why is the onus on Joe Pa to call the police when he has superiors to report this stuff to? Couldn't the graduate assistant who directly witnessed it have called the police? Yes. What did he do instead? Reported it to his superior. What did his superior do? Report it to his superiors. At that point, the superiors need to investigate and then determine if the police should be called.
Skyhook79;965035 wrote:People do not seem to care/understand chain of command nor do they care/understand due process.
lhslep134;965038 wrote:I think the heinous level of the acts here are blinding people from the concepts you mention. While to an extent understandable, it's not an excuse.
No one is putting JoePa on trial for the rapes, they are stating that JoePa should and could have done more. Did he not think to follow up on such a serious allegation? Yeah, one guy goes up the chain of command, then the next, then the next....we see how that worked out. It most likely allowed many more boys to be assaulted. JoePa should have taken action into his own hands, he is PSU.
lhslep134;965136 wrote:Exactly. Keeping all my rapes in house.
Well, with that resume, there is a few openings now at PSU that you will definitely be qualified for.
Tiernan;965182 wrote:Something that seems to be getting lost in all this is...how big of a **** was McQueary when he actually sees Sandusky doing the kid and doesn't immediately walk into that shower and cold - cock the old man and then get the kid outta there to a safe place?
+1
Tiernan;965233 wrote:Not sure you would stop a kid being raped? Uh...I'm pretty sure I would no matter who was doing it.
Rep'd
2kool4skool;965361 wrote:Question for all those defending Paterno:

Paterno says McQueary came to him and told him Sandusky was molesting a child in the shower. Paterno reports incident to AD but in the coming years knows Sandusky not only isn't in prison, but continues to use psu facilities and hang around kids.

So in Paterno's mind, the logical conclusion is either the AD covered this up, or McQueary lied. If McQueary lied about something as serious as a coach raping a little boy, why did Paterno promote him over and over? If he knew nothing was done by the higher ups, why didn't Paterno do something?
I don't understand how people dont get this. Paterno knows that someone did something wrong. Either Sandusky raped little boys or McQueary lied about it. Either way, someone needs to get punished. Instead he passes the buck and ignores it hoping it would go away (which it did for awhile and in that time more boys likely got raped).
Nov 10, 2011 2:09am
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bigkahuna

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Nov 10, 2011 2:12 AM
I know what I typed, but I obviously didn't mean literally I have been where he is. My point is that has anyone else on here been approached with child molestation accusations in an educational setting where you are considered a notch in the chain of command and subsequently the first person to be responded to? I have. It's known what to do, and he did it. Others' actions can't be placed on him.
Nov 10, 2011 2:12am