Penn State planning for Paterno's departure amid scandal

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Mulva's avatar

Mulva

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13,650 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:29 PM
Con_Alma;964933 wrote:I would call the police about every allegation of this nature if it was made available to me two times and after the first time nothing was done about it when I let my superiors know.
Two times? Are you talking about 1998? Because again, in that instance the police investigated and the district attorney decided there wasn't a crime to prosecute. It wasn't that "nothing was done". It was that not everyone who is accused or investigated is charged. For everyone saying about the 2nd incident "tell the police and let them sort it out", that's exactly what was done in the 1998 case.

Unless he was notified twice in 2002 and I'm missing something.
Nov 9, 2011 1:29pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:30 PM
2kool4skool;964975 wrote:lol, no.

An employee(who I trust and has no reason to lie): "Hey, boss, I saw Steve stabbing some woman to death in the parking lot"

"Did you call the police"

"No"

"Okay, well we're calling them and you're telling them this."

Note how the conversation isn't: "Well, I'm not sure I believe you. Let me wait a couple days to tell me regional manager, we'll let him handle it."
Call the police and tell them what? "Hey we think this guy raped a kid?" "Ok, sir, where, when, who did this occur? "I have no idea, I didn't witness it, some guy just told me"

The police would go directly to the administrators like how it works in the real world. The administrators would then go to Joe Pa. Joe Pa just skipped a step and went directly to the people he'd have to talk to anyway.
Nov 9, 2011 1:30pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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27,879 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:31 PM
2kool4skool;964975 wrote:lol, no.

An employee(who I trust and has no reason to lie): "Hey, boss, I saw Steve stabbing some woman to death in the parking lot"

"Did you call the police"

"No"

"Okay, well we're calling them and you're telling them this."

Note how the conversation isn't: "Well, I'm not sure I believe you. Let me wait a couple days to tell my regional manager, we'll let him handle it."
Also, do you know he has no reason to lie? No you don't. He could have a vendetta against Sandusky. Like I said, the way it works in the real world is to go to your supervisors and inform them, and have them go to the police and take action.
Nov 9, 2011 1:31pm
2kool4skool's avatar

2kool4skool

Senior Member

1,804 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:31 PM
sleeper;964985 wrote:Call the police and tell them what? "Hey we think this guy raped a kid?" "Ok, sir, where, when, who did this occur? "I have no idea, I didn't witness it, some guy just told me"
I would bring the police into the room with the employee who told me, and have him inform them of what he saw. Since that should have been his action in the first place, before going to me.
Nov 9, 2011 1:31pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:32 PM
Dr Winston O'Boogie;964960 wrote:and I was the boss .
Joe Pa isn't the boss. The AD and university President are the bosses.
Nov 9, 2011 1:32pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:33 PM
Mulva;964983 wrote:Two times? Are you talking about 1998? Because again, in that instance the police investigated and the district attorney decided there wasn't a crime to prosecute. It wasn't that "nothing was done". It was that not everyone who is accused or investigated is charged. For everyone saying about the 2nd incident "tell the police and let them sort it out", that's exactly what was done in the 1998 case.

Unless he was notified twice in 2002 and I'm missing something.
Shhh! Don't bring up anything that lends credence to the possibility that Joe Pa is innocent! It makes you a pedophile apologist!
Nov 9, 2011 1:33pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:34 PM
Mulva;964983 wrote:Two times? Are you talking about 1998? Because again, in that instance the police investigated and the district attorney decided there wasn't a crime to prosecute. It wasn't that "nothing was done". It was that not everyone who is accused or investigated is charged. For everyone saying about the 2nd incident "tell the police and let them sort it out", that's exactly what was done in the 1998 case.

Unless he was notified twice in 2002 and I'm missing something.
yep, something has got to be done. If there was no truth to the first incident and the second arose someone is either trying to damage the University with such claims or there's fire with the smoke.
Nov 9, 2011 1:34pm
2kool4skool's avatar

2kool4skool

Senior Member

1,804 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:34 PM
sleeper;964989 wrote:the way it works in the real world.
You continue to say this, yet there's the police chief unequivocally stating Paterno should have done more. I feel like he's probably a better expert of what proper process is "in the real world" than you.
Nov 9, 2011 1:34pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Nov 9, 2011 1:35 PM
2kool4skool;964991 wrote:I would bring the police into the room with the employee who told me, and have him inform them of what he saw. Since that should have been his action in the first place, before going to me.
SMH. You don't get it. This is not Joe Pa's job. I know its an emotional crime and a disgusting incident, but you go to your supervisors and let them handle the situation. People just want to be like "OMG a child raped let's burn the building down trying to get the polices attention!!$#@"

Seriously, don't be stupid.
Nov 9, 2011 1:35pm
A

alwaysawarrior

Member

53 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:35 PM
sleeper;964985 wrote:Call the police and tell them what? "Hey we think this guy raped a kid?" "Ok, sir, where, when, who did this occur? "I have no idea, I didn't witness it, some guy just told me"

The police would go directly to the administrators like how it works in the real world. The administrators would then go to Joe Pa. Joe Pa just skipped a step and went directly to the people he'd have to talk to anyway.
Some of you are the most ignorant people I have ever had the pleasure of speaking with. "What if you call the police and it isn't true, then you called the police for nothing". No you dumbass I called the police so they could figure out if it was real or not. That is their job! Not yours, not Paterno's, not the AD's. Everything then should have been handed over to Protective services, and/or the cops.
Nov 9, 2011 1:35pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:36 PM
2kool4skool;965000 wrote:You continue to say this, yet there's the police chief unequivocally stating Paterno should have done more. I feel like he's probably a better expert of what proper process is "in the real world" than you.
Yeah, hindsight is 20/20. At the time, Joe has NO IDEA if these allegations are true. That is why you let your supervisors handle it. This isn't that difficult to understand.
Nov 9, 2011 1:36pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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Nov 9, 2011 1:36 PM
alwaysawarrior;965006 wrote:Some of you are the most ignorant people I have ever had the pleasure of speaking with. "What if you call the police and it isn't true, then you called the police for nothing". No you dumbass I called the police so they could figure out if it was real or not. That is their job! Not yours, not Paterno's, not the AD's. Everything then should have been handed over to Protective services, and/or the cops.
Not how it works in the real world, sorry. Get off your high horse, you're being ridiculous.
Nov 9, 2011 1:36pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:37 PM
sleeper;965008 wrote: That is why you let your supervisors handle it. This isn't that difficult to understand.
Apparently it is...
Nov 9, 2011 1:37pm
2kool4skool's avatar

2kool4skool

Senior Member

1,804 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:39 PM
sleeper;965004 wrote:People just want to be like "OMG a child raped let's burn the building down trying to get the polices attention!!$#@".
Or be like "hey, let's call the police and tell them what you saw." AKA, the exact thing the police chief said wold have been the appropriate process in the first place. Yeah, same thing as burning the building down ;)
Nov 9, 2011 1:39pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:44 PM
2kool4skool;965015 wrote:Or be like "hey, let's call the police and tell them what you saw."
So why is the onus on Joe Pa to call the police when he has superiors to report this stuff to? Couldn't the graduate assistant who directly witnessed it have called the police? Yes. What did he do instead? Reported it to his superior. What did his superior do? Report it to his superiors. At that point, the superiors need to investigate and then determine if the police should be called.
Nov 9, 2011 1:44pm
Skyhook79's avatar

Skyhook79

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5,739 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:46 PM
lhslep134;965029 wrote:So why is the onus on Joe Pa to call the police when he has superiors to report this stuff to? Couldn't the graduate assistant who directly witnessed it have called the police? Yes. What did he do instead? Reported it to his superior. What did his superior do? Report it to his superiors. At that point, the superiors need to investigate and then determine if the police should be called.
People do not seem to care/understand chain of command nor do they care/understand due process.
Nov 9, 2011 1:46pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 1:49 PM
Skyhook79;965035 wrote:People do not seem to care/understand chain of command nor do they care/understand due process.
I think the heinous level of the acts here are blinding people from the concepts you mention. While to an extent understandable, it's not an excuse.
Nov 9, 2011 1:49pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:03 PM
Skyhook79;965035 wrote:People do not seem to care/understand chain of command nor do they care/understand due process.
One thing I understand that you don't (or are being intentionally obtuse) is that the "official" organizational chart bears little resemblance to the effective one in real-world organizations. If you think the AD was Joe's boss in any real way, you're simply foolish.
Nov 9, 2011 2:03pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:04 PM
lhslep134;965038 wrote:I think the heinous level of the acts here are blinding people from the concepts you mention. While to an extent understandable, it's not an excuse.
And that isn't ok?? I mean if Sandusky was stealing a damned candy bar out of the vending machine sure, use the chain of command if you want, but when you steal a child's innocence chain of command is out the window in my book!
Nov 9, 2011 2:04pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:08 PM
Fab1b;965058 wrote: but when you steal a child's innocence chain of command is out the window in my book!
At the point Paterno heard about it, it was only an allegation. No proof of stealing of any child's innocence, only allegations. If you're OK with reporting every single allegation you hear to the police instead of alerting your bosses, then I'm not arguing because that's simply illogical.


If Paterno had ACTUALLY seen it, then it's a completely different story, and his actions are indefensible.
Nov 9, 2011 2:08pm
Fab1b's avatar

Fab1b

The Bald A-Hole!!

12,949 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:09 PM
If that allegation contained rape or molestation yes I would sorry!
Nov 9, 2011 2:09pm
Red Right 21's avatar

Red Right 21

Member

88 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:12 PM
lhslep134;965038 wrote:I think the heinous level of the acts here are blinding people from the concepts you mention. While to an extent understandable, it's not an excuse.
wow! They knew what was going on for over 10 years and no one did anything about it! No follow up tells me there is a cover up. All involved are at fault including Joe Pa. Just because he reported up the chain does not give him a pass. He even said today"I wish I would have done more"! No kidding!!!
Nov 9, 2011 2:12pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:15 PM
Red Right 21;965068 wrote:"I wish I would have done more"
Do you realize that's a qualified statement? He wishes he would (NOT SHOULD) have done more due to the ineptitude of his superiors (hence why his superiors are legally liable). Had he known his superiors would have completely dropped the ball, then for all we know, he would have done more. But, you have to assume that your superiors will handle the situation in the best way possible. If you don't, then the hierarchy of command is a dead concept. Last time I checked, the concept still exists.
Nov 9, 2011 2:15pm
J

Jawbreaker

Senior Member

520 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:24 PM
lhslep134;965029 wrote:So why is the onus on Joe Pa to call the police when he has superiors to report this stuff to? Couldn't the graduate assistant who directly witnessed it have called the police? Yes. What did he do instead? Reported it to his superior. What did his superior do? Report it to his superiors. At that point, the superiors need to investigate and then determine if the police should be called.
If I see or it is reported to me a CRIME has been committed of this nature, I call the police AND tell my boss. If I would lose my job over b/c I didn't follow some stupid protocol, fine by me. Everyone involved in this (obv. not the kids) shares some blame. This isn't NCAA violations, this is a sick crime.
Nov 9, 2011 2:24pm
A

alwaysawarrior

Member

53 posts
Nov 9, 2011 2:40 PM
lhslep134;965062 wrote:At the point Paterno heard about it, it was only an allegation. No proof of stealing of any child's innocence, only allegations. If you're OK with reporting every single allegation you hear to the police instead of alerting your bosses, then I'm not arguing because that's simply illogical.


If Paterno had ACTUALLY seen it, then it's a completely different story, and his actions are indefensible.
Again where do you work that you are hearing some many child rape claims? Yes I report every single one of those that I am told about. I tell the proper authorities what I know and let them handle it from there. You are being asinine pretending that every "crime" should be handled the same way. And again I would love to know where you work that reports of children being molested happen so frequently that you couldn't fathom bothering the proper authorities?
Nov 9, 2011 2:40pm