he's not going anywhere, but as it's been stated ad nauseam, Robinson will be gone...somebody's got to be the sacrificial lamb, and it's his defense that sucks, so bye-bye Greggy.

The only way I think they fire hins is if they know they can get a Harbaugh, Miles or a Petersen to replace him. What they have to consider is, will the program be better off cutting their losses now, or taking a chance and not getting any better results next year? While the offense has shown promise, I do not beleive they have the players they need in the program to get good enough on defense to make that much of a difference a year from now. If I had a vote, I would vote to cut my losses and move in another direction.

Everyone seems to be so HIGH on RR "system". But does anyone realize that his system is good vs poor defense, OR when they are down by 21pts? People seem to think that when UM gets a defense, "look out". I don't buy into that to be honest. I don't think his system is any better then any other system at the top programs. If it were THAT good, it would be being replicated all over. As I said, the UM offense looks great vs poor defense, and it looks great when they are DOWN BIG. Well, defenses play differently and quite often, the nature of the game is that the defense will let up a bit with a big lead. I am not buying that his system is so great until I see it consistantly do something. Its a fast break neck way to play. Well, that kind of offense can leave even a good defense hung out to dry quite often. Will it win? Ya, it can win. But will it win big? That I am not so sure of.

ICEMAN59;569437 wrote:Cowherd is a clown . . . a master at stating (and constantly restating) the obvious, but as if it's some incredible insight.

Clowns makes clowny predictions. Therefore, Rich Rod will not lose his job.

This is the thing I hate about his show. He states his opinion as if it's a fact, but dismisses everyone else's opinion as just that, opinion. I also hate that he doesn't have a co-host on his radio show. He talks directly to his producer who rarely says anything back, and he has five minute segments on topics where he repeats the same 30 seconds on content over and over again. I don't really mind him on SportsNation, but I can't stand his radio show most days.

WebFire;569186 wrote:I understand the point. But I think it's fair to say if you take most teams' best player away it would hurt them. I think the point is exaggerated a bit in krambman's post. Michigan seems to do fine with Forcier in, and he's not the same type as Robinson.

I don't think that it's that exaggerated at all, and I think that I explain my point at the end of my post when I talked about the different starting QB's Ohio State has had while Jim Tressel was there.

When Craig Krenzel was his starting QB OSU would throw the ball 12-14 times a game and they would usually be short to midrange passes, with maybe one long ball thrown in, and the offense was going to pound the ball with a top running back. There was nothing fancy about that offense, and he won a National Championship with it.

Then he had Troy Smith who was a run-first-pass-second guy in 2004, who developed into a make-your-reads-then-take-off-guy in 2005, and eventually into a pass-first-run-only-when-you-have-to-guy in 2006. Once he became a good passes Ohio State no longer ran a power I two tight end with a fullback offense, but they began to run a shotgun five wide offense that spread the ball out and used speed on the outside. Troy Smith won a Heisman in this system and OSU went undefeated in the regular season.

Next Todd Boeckman was the QB and he was a pure pocket passer. OSU still ran a variation of the spread but relied on the running game more with Beanie and went deep a lot. Nearly the entire offense was run from the pocket, whereas under Smith he would often roll out on passing plays and defense had to scheme to stop him because of his running ability. Again Ohio State made it to a national championship game with this system.

Now we have Terrelle Pryor who has become a pass-first guy but who still takes off and runs when necessary (more than Smith did his senior year). Now the offense is run mostly out of the shotgun and has become a pass-first minded team that throws to set up the run, which is a huge shift from what Tressel has done in the past. OSU has won two (soon to be three) conference titles with this offense and they won a Rose Bowl with it.

The point is that Jim Tressel has adapted his offense to suit his personnel. When he had a bruising running back and a heady efficient and somewhat mobile QB Ohio State was a power running team. When he had a truly mobile QB they were an option team. When they had a mobile passer they became a Steve Young-esque west coast offense team. When they had a pocket passer they ran a true pro-style offense that went deep a lot. Now with a mobile QB they have become a pass first team running a modified spread. Tressel never came in and said "we're going to be a power football team" or "we're going to run the pro-style offense" or "we're going to be a read option spread team" and then went out and recruited guys who were well suited to run that system. He simply goes out and recruits the best players available regardless of their specific skill set, and then he develops an offensive system to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Now, this hasn't always worked perfectly, but that is the design.

Rich Rodriguez on the other hand came in and said we are going to run the zone read option spread. He then tried to force Steven Threet (who isn't really a mobile QB) to run his system and Michigan won three games. He then tried to force Tate Forcier (who isn't really a mobile QB) to run his system and Michigan won 5 games. Now he has a QB who has the skill set to run his system and they have won 7 games (and they likely would have won more if they had anything that even slightly resembled a defense). The thing that was so painful to watch his first year at Michigan was the fact that he didn't have players who were suited to run his system, but instead of adapting what he does on offense to utilize their strengths, he forced all of them to adapt to his style. It was like watching someone try and fit a square beg into a round hole. How different would things be at Michigan right now if he would have come in and looked at Ryan Mallet and decided to give up on the spread for now and run a pro-style offense with Mallet under center? I can guarantee you that they would be in much better shape right now. But instead of being willing to adapt, he forced his players to adapt. Which is easier, the head coach and some of his offensive staff adapting their system to fit the players skills and abilities, or asking an entire offense to do things they simply aren't capable of doing? Now he can only recruit mobile QB's like Denard Robinson and Devin Gardner. He isn't going to go after pocket passers because he wouldn't have a place for them. Tressel on the other hand can recruit pocket passers like Justin Zwick, Todd Boeckman, or Joe Bauserman or mobile QB's like Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, or Braxton Miller. He can then take the guy who gives him the best chance of winning and mold the offense around him. Rich Rodriguez cannot do that, so if he doesn't get one of the top mobile QB's every few years then his offense will struggle.

Sorry for writing a book.

krambman;570715 wrote:I don't think that it's that exaggerated at all, and I think that I explain my point at the end of my post when I talked about the different starting QB's Ohio State has had while Jim Tressel was there.

When Craig Krenzel was his starting QB OSU would throw the ball 12-14 times a game and they would usually be short to midrange passes, with maybe one long ball thrown in, and the offense was going to pound the ball with a top running back. There was nothing fancy about that offense, and he won a National Championship with it.

Then he had Troy Smith who was a run-first-pass-second guy in 2004, who developed into a make-your-reads-then-take-off-guy in 2005, and eventually into a pass-first-run-only-when-you-have-to-guy in 2006. Once he became a good passes Ohio State no longer ran a power I two tight end with a fullback offense, but they began to run a shotgun five wide offense that spread the ball out and used speed on the outside. Troy Smith won a Heisman in this system and OSU went undefeated in the regular season.

Next Todd Boeckman was the QB and he was a pure pocket passer. OSU still ran a variation of the spread but relied on the running game more with Beanie and went deep a lot. Nearly the entire offense was run from the pocket, whereas under Smith he would often roll out on passing plays and defense had to scheme to stop him because of his running ability. Again Ohio State made it to a national championship game with this system.

Now we have Terrelle Pryor who has become a pass-first guy but who still takes off and runs when necessary (more than Smith did his senior year). Now the offense is run mostly out of the shotgun and has become a pass-first minded team that throws to set up the run, which is a huge shift from what Tressel has done in the past. OSU has won two (soon to be three) conference titles with this offense and they won a Rose Bowl with it.

The point is that Jim Tressel has adapted his offense to suit his personnel. When he had a bruising running back and a heady efficient and somewhat mobile QB Ohio State was a power running team. When he had a truly mobile QB they were an option team. When they had a mobile passer they became a Steve Young-esque west coast offense team. When they had a pocket passer they ran a true pro-style offense that went deep a lot. Now with a mobile QB they have become a pass first team running a modified spread. Tressel never came in and said "we're going to be a power football team" or "we're going to run the pro-style offense" or "we're going to be a read option spread team" and then went out and recruited guys who were well suited to run that system. He simply goes out and recruits the best players available regardless of their specific skill set, and then he develops an offensive system to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. Now, this hasn't always worked perfectly, but that is the design.

Rich Rodriguez on the other hand came in and said we are going to run the zone read option spread. He then tried to force Steven Threet (who isn't really a mobile QB) to run his system and Michigan won three games. He then tried to force Tate Forcier (who isn't really a mobile QB) to run his system and Michigan won 5 games. Now he has a QB who has the skill set to run his system and they have won 7 games (and they likely would have won more if they had anything that even slightly resembled a defense). The thing that was so painful to watch his first year at Michigan was the fact that he didn't have players who were suited to run his system, but instead of adapting what he does on offense to utilize their strengths, he forced all of them to adapt to his style. It was like watching someone try and fit a square beg into a round hole. How different would things be at Michigan right now if he would have come in and looked at Ryan Mallet and decided to give up on the spread for now and run a pro-style offense with Mallet under center? I can guarantee you that they would be in much better shape right now. But instead of being willing to adapt, he forced his players to adapt. Which is easier, the head coach and some of his offensive staff adapting their system to fit the players skills and abilities, or asking an entire offense to do things they simply aren't capable of doing? Now he can only recruit mobile QB's like Denard Robinson and Devin Gardner. He isn't going to go after pocket passers because he wouldn't have a place for them. Tressel on the other hand can recruit pocket passers like Justin Zwick, Todd Boeckman, or Joe Bauserman or mobile QB's like Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, or Braxton Miller. He can then take the guy who gives him the best chance of winning and mold the offense around him. Rich Rodriguez cannot do that, so if he doesn't get one of the top mobile QB's every few years then his offense will struggle.

Sorry for writing a book.

I don't disagree with you about his first year, but it wouldn't have mattered what he ran that year. That topic was beat to death by UM fans. RR has had both running and throwing QBs work in his system. I think the system is fine.

No matter what system you run, you get the best QB you can to run it. I think you're point is not really valid considering he has 3 QBs on the roster that can run it, and he is set for the next 4 years and has other recruits in his sights.

Now, if RR for some reason didn't pull in a good recruit and only had a Krenzel at the helm, and he tried to run this system, then that would be stupid. But do you think that will happen? Should he just run the I to be safe? Doesn't make sense to do that.

In college football you recruit. Therefore, you can focus on a QB that will fit your system. Sure Tressel has adapted and many coaches do, but there is nothing wrong with not adapting. What if Nebraska had a QB that wasn't mobile. Or USC a QB that couldn't throw? There are examples across the country and coaches are able to recruit guys that will fit, so to say Rich Rod's system can't be successful because he's relying on a "system QB" is a little off, because he will always recruit a QB to fit his system.

^^^ Yeah that's what I was trying to say.

Say what you want but The Heard is a great show. RR's job is up in the air and I would not be surprised either way.

I wouldn't be surprised either way as well.

It's a sad day in Michigan when 7-5 is a record that has most fans saying is good enough to keep the coach! Granted it looks good after the last couple years; but that says only how far UM has fallen. Earl Bruce got canned because 9-3 consistently wasn't good enough. Personally if I were UM AD, I'd say the heck with 7-5; we should be 10-2 at worst! and cut RR loose and get a legit guy in there to turn it around. Tho as an OSU fan, I hope they keep him.

If he loses to tOSU and loses the bowl game, he's gone by 1/1/11
If he loses BADLY to tOSU, he's gone before the bowl game.

Otherwise, one more year.

Reserve clause A - one of the aforementioned UM grads makes it known prior the bowl game that he'll willing to return to Ann Arbor in 2011.

Reserve clause B - more trouble with the NCAA.

if RR does get the axe, I sure hope Jim Harbaugh doesn't get the job--he's a helluva coach and things could get back to normal up in AA real quick

ricola;571410 wrote:It's a sad day in Michigan when 7-5 is a record that has most fans saying is good enough to keep the coach! Granted it looks good after the last couple years; but that says only how far UM has fallen. Earl Bruce got canned because 9-3 consistently wasn't good enough. Personally if I were UM AD, I'd say the heck with 7-5; we should be 10-2 at worst! and cut RR loose and get a legit guy in there to turn it around. Tho as an OSU fan, I hope they keep him.

Heck, many OSU fans want to see Tressel gone and all he does is win 10 games a season, beat his biggest rival every year, win conference championships, graduate players, and play in BCS bowl games.

^^^^fans? I doubt it, kramber--they can't be fans if this is the case.

I don't think anyone wants Tressel gone. Some might question him, but no one wants to see him go anywhere.

thedynasty1998;572278 wrote:I don't think anyone wants Tressel gone. Some might question him, but no one wants to see him go anywhere.

Not until they lose one game. Then the crazies come out.

The one thing that makes me wonder if he'll be back is this...if David Brandon knew for sure he was coming back, he certainly would have announced that already. What an affect that would have on recruiting. Leaving it up in the air can only hurt. So if he knew, why hold that in?

He is not going anywhere as his offense is working and the defense is killing them. He will get one more year with a new DC and he will then have to prove himself next year. I still would not be shocked if he got let go, nor would I care lol. I would however want someone who like the spread offense as I do not want to restructure everything again.

FatHobbit;572279 wrote:Not until they lose one game. Then the crazies come out.

Exactly. Look back at any of the threads on here or JJ after OSU has lost a single in the past few years and you'll see plenty of people calling for him to be fired. Because firing a coach who has won a National Championship, played for two more, and has a winning percentage higher than the school's all-time winning percentage is the prudent thing to do.

krambman;573776 wrote:Exactly. Look back at any of the threads on here or JJ after OSU has lost a single in the past few years and you'll see plenty of people calling for him to be fired. Because firing a coach who has won a National Championship, played for two more, and has a winning percentage higher than the school's all-time winning percentage is the prudent thing to do.

People always get upset when a team looses expecially when they do not do it very often IMO. No team runs the table every year and some people need to realise it because some day JT will be gone and OSU might not be this good.

bo shemmy3337;574009 wrote:People always get upset when a team looses expecially when they do not do it very often IMO. No team runs the table every year and some people need to realise it because some day JT will be gone and OSU might not be this good.

I couldn't agree more. I understand wanting your team to go undefeated every year, but if that is your actual expectation then you will never be happy. Some people have such unrealistic expectations. If you look at OSU under Jim Tressel they rarely lose to teams they aren't supposed to and Boise may be the only team with a better win percentage than them in the past decade. I'll never understand people wanting to fire Jim Tressel for going at least 10-2 every year or wanting to keep RichRod for having a seven win season.

At this point, I think UM either has to fire RR right now or commit to him for at least 2 more years. Honestly, even with their offense, they weren't competitive against the top teams in the conference. Defense and special teams are the worst I've ever seen at UM. Under RR, this team is 2-3 years away from being what UM fans want them to be, and what Big 10 fans need them to be. What would be the point of keeping him this year, then firing him next year after another mediocre season.

Funny thing is Cowher had picked scUM to upset OSU. Today on his show he called it his biggest Whiff of the year. Today he said and I quote, "...Michigan is a MESS!, smallish players on Defense with little chance to compete at a D1 level..." Then he said he would not be surprised to see DickRod released after the bowl game win or lose.

IMO Harbaugh is probably not interested in coming back at this time. Stanford is a great situation for him. If Pizza Boy can't line up a Harbaugh or Myles behind the scenes before the bowl game, Dickie's job is safe.

Tiernan;580928 wrote:Funny thing is Cowher had picked scUM to upset OSU.

So much for freakishly accurate. Didn't he also pick Iowa to beat OSU?