jpake1 wrote: That sounds crazy, but crazy shit might happen form teams panicing to get a lot better than some possible dynasties in the making this offseason.

You mean like the Cavs? LOL

SQ_Crazies wrote: None of those other scenarios sound much better than the Cavaliers approach to me.

You talk about better young talent, Bynum? You mean the guy who is too soft to become what he could be--which is the best C in the league. And a guy who, while young, has about 35 year old knees? I'd actually take a chance on JJ Hickson before Bynum if I were looking for young talent. JJ proved to be very good when he got his chance to start games and he was playing out of position. You're basically lucky if Bynum is even playing.

All of those get you cap relief quicker, being the biggest thing. You don't have to wait for two seasons for it to happen like Mo and Jamison would. I'm talking about the guy that has PRODUCED MUCH MUCH MORE than JJ Hickson. His knees raise a huge question mark, which I definitely stated. I'd be more willing to take a chance on a 22yr C that could be the best in a few years than a PF that can't get off the bench during the playoffs that would sit behind West anyways.

SQ_Crazies wrote:

jpake1 wrote: That sounds crazy, but crazy shit might happen form teams panicing to get a lot better than some possible dynasties in the making this offseason.

You mean like the Cavs? LOL

There isn't anything too crazy about the Cavs trading some of those guys named. Not on the level of the Spurs trading Parker.

But what happens when Gilbert pulls something crazier than you could ever have conceived? Kind of along the same lines as maybe offering Phil Jackson 20 million.

Don't underestimate the Cavs power in this offseason, they'll do whatever they have to to make something happen and you're discrediting everything these guys are saying while posting a bunch of stuff that doesn't have any more merit. You can't underestimate the power of the player either--if CP3 finds out he's likely to be traded and WANTS to go play with LeBron, he'll have some say in it. To say otherwise would be to ignore history. Of course the organization has the final say, but we all know how players have been able to control things like this in the past.

And for the record, no one is saying this is going to happen. It's just offseason talk, and being a large collection of Cavs fans, clearly it's bound to relate to the Cavs. Not to mention the trade rumor came from a somewhat credible source in W&G. I don't put a lot of faith in them without knowing for sure who it is, but the person has been correct on quite a few things in the past. And not things that you just pull out of your ass really.

JJ Hickson is going to be a beast. There is reason he was highly coveted by other teams at the trade deadline. They all see the potential this kid has. His improvements from year 1 to year 2 were very good and he missed the entire summer to work on his game due to a lower back injury.

Toward the end of the season he really got comfortable in the offense. He was taking guys 1-on-1 and showed the ability to hit a 15-17 foot jumper.

He also showed the ability to play solid, not great man-to-man defense and the ability to be a good weak side defender. Hell, during the games against the Magic, I thought he guarded Dwight pretty well.. Mainly because he can jump with Howard.. There was a game in New Jersey were JJ flat out owned Brook Lopez defensively, whom I think will be the best overall C in the league within the next two years.

jpake1 wrote: Jamison makes no sense for NO. They've got West at the 4. Plus, that isn't cap relief if it doesn't come off for a couple years. They can just stay with what they have if that's the thinking. Paja comes off after this year. MoPete comes off. If they're dealing a top 10 player, they want immediate relief. I havn't seen much from JJ. He's still a youngin' and gets spoon fed from LBJ like a baby. He's a kid with potential. It'll take A LOT more than that to get a fuckin' true stud in CP3. West would be gone and only paying him .5M would be nice. Telfair is just an expire. There are several teams out there that could give them expiring like that with better young talent and better draft picks.

I don't get it either. Sure the Cavs would love to get Paul, but there is no situation that seems realistic to me. Someone proposed a trade earlier and it really didn't even provide New Orleans with cap relieft. Paul is on the books for two years, so you are selling the idea of Jamison who is an expiring next season? Guess what, so is Paul.

It's just really confusing to me that Cavs fans think a deal with New Orleans is a possibility.

As for Blake or Ridnour not making the Cavs better, I disagree. You have a true PG to set up Lebron, so that he doesn't have to do it every time down the court, and you can move Mo Williams to the 2 where he can come off screens and focus more on his shot.

hoops23 wrote: JJ Hickson is going to be a beast. There is reason he was highly coveted by other teams at the trade deadline. They all see the potential this kid has. His improvements from year 1 to year 2 were very good and he missed the entire summer to work on his game due to a lower back injury.

Toward the end of the season he really got comfortable in the offense. He was taking guys 1-on-1 and showed the ability to hit a 15-17 foot jumper.

He also showed the ability to play solid, not great man-to-man defense and the ability to be a good weak side defender. Hell, during the games against the Magic, I thought he guarded Dwight pretty well.. Mainly because he can jump with Howard.. There was a game in New Jersey were JJ flat out owned Brook Lopez defensively, whom I think will be the best overall C in the league within the next two years.

I don't understand this thought process either. What exactly has he shown other than a little potential? The guy is a NBA role player. There's a reason he didn't play much in the postseason, and a reason why the Cavs went out to get Jamison.

We've seen JJ get a chance to be something other than a role player for one short stretch of his young career. And when he got the chance to start, he played out of position and played GREAT. Don't forget that this guy was born in 1988. He's still young as hell and clearly about as athletic as they come.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/gamelog?playerId=3437

Look at that. Notice towards the bottom when his minutes start to get MORE CONSISTENT (that's important) and they go up because he was starting. I'm not saying he can be a superstar, not saying that he WILL necessarily even be that good--but he's certainly a pretty highly coveted young player in the league. I don't think, based on the chances he's gotten, that anyone can say anything but positive things about him.

SQ_Crazies wrote: But what happens when Gilbert pulls something crazier than you could ever have conceived? Kind of along the same lines as maybe offering Phil Jackson 20 million.

Don't underestimate the Cavs power in this offseason, they'll do whatever they have to to make something happen and you're discrediting everything these guys are saying while posting a bunch of stuff that doesn't have any more merit. You can't underestimate the power of the player either--if CP3 finds out he's likely to be traded and WANTS to go play with LeBron, he'll have some say in it. To say otherwise would be to ignore history. Of course the organization has the final say, but we all know how players have been able to control things like this in the past.

And for the record, no one is saying this is going to happen. It's just offseason talk, and being a large collection of Cavs fans, clearly it's bound to relate to the Cavs. Not to mention the trade rumor came from a somewhat credible source in W&G. I don't put a lot of faith in them without knowing for sure who it is, but the person has been correct on quite a few things in the past. And not things that you just pull out of your ass really.

Then he offers him 20M. Nobody is talking about coaches here, just trade talk. I'm not discrediting this CP3 trade talk. W&G probably heard something from a guy who heard something. I'm just giving my two cents saying I think it'd be a horrible trade for NO and that I don't believe it would go down. Somebody asked for my opinion on other teams, I gave it. I didn't just start posting trade stuff like it had been rumored. You know better than that. I'm not underestimating the power of the player, but at this point, CP3 doesn't have much power in the negotiating. NO will get what they want out of him from the highest bidder. They'll be loyal and listen to his desires, but it comes down to their decision. They won't just ship him wherever he wants to be if it means they leave a few better offers on the table if there are indeed some others. Speaking of history-- what it is? I'm kind of curious to know some of these very high profile NBA guys that still had a couple years on their contract get traded to the team of their liking. I'm drawing a big blank while trying to let history teach me up with some knowledge. And I know nobody is saying it'll happen. Have I accused anybody of doing that? No. But if someones going to bring it up, I'm going to give my two cents.

hoops23 wrote: JJ Hickson is going to be a beast. There is reason he was highly coveted by other teams at the trade deadline. They all see the potential this kid has. His improvements from year 1 to year 2 were very good and he missed the entire summer to work on his game due to a lower back injury.

Toward the end of the season he really got comfortable in the offense. He was taking guys 1-on-1 and showed the ability to hit a 15-17 foot jumper.

He also showed the ability to play solid, not great man-to-man defense and the ability to be a good weak side defender. Hell, during the games against the Magic, I thought he guarded Dwight pretty well.. Mainly because he can jump with Howard.. There was a game in New Jersey were JJ flat out owned Brook Lopez defensively, whom I think will be the best overall C in the league within the next two years.

That's good for you as a Cavs fan. I've just got to see more. I think he'll be a good player. I'm not seeing a multiyear all-star quite yet like some of you are.

The LAL trade scenario is shit. Very few teams are going to be willing to take a risk on Bynum, he has been hurt consistently. Also, for an owner who is asking their coach to take a pay cut, is he really going to spend 93 mil in pay roll again (9 players for LAL with this trade totals 88 million, assuming they spend their MLE on two guys to push it to 93). I am not sure on the Buss situation, but if he doesn't want to pay THE best coach in the game I don't think he'll bring in another 26.2 million in salary long term.

So this trade adds young talent with a history of major knee problems, expirings of 9 millions, same cash, and same picks roughly. Remember, West's savings will be an instant 4.1 million. They won't have to wait, that is a pretty big thing.

The New York trade is difficult to imagine as Lee would have to agree to a S/T, I think he goes elsewhere and won't help the Knicks land CP3. They won't pay him so why does he have to help them get better. Plus, the Knicks will be too busy chasing the free agents to worry about this trade. Their not too smart.

Once again, the Mavs trade is a stretch right now considering Dirk is opting out and your scenario would have the Mavs retaining both Dirk and Haywood who is a unrestricted FA. It would be a decent trade if they were able to get both guys to stay, but in the end I see Haywood going elsewhere. Plus, the Mavs love their young PG already.

Also, there is some good conversation on RCF concerning Wally and his contract. Gilbert has been reluctant to use Wally in S/T's as it would have added huge amounts of money to an already large pay roll. But Cleveland will have Shaq off the books so their pay roll won't be nearly as high.

Wally could be signed for any sort of $$$ for a year, then traded along with others. He could then be bought out (instant savings) or sit the season as an expiring.

Devil- It seems we share the same opinion of eachother's trades. I don't think any of my trades happen. You asked me to throw out some teams with better chips, so I did. I just think NO gets more with those than the Cavs one. I don't think any of them come close to happening, just like yours. After the deadline passed, I think NO hurt their chances. They would have gotten more back then and had better options with this years expirings. I don't think a trade goes down now, but if one does, I don't think they get as good as what they could have gotten during the deadline.

There are a few teams that I believe would trade for Bynum. Just like if Yao opts out there will be teams wanting to sign him. His knees are certainly a cause of concern. But I could see how a GM would be willing to take a risk. When he's healthy, he's a good player at 22. As for Buss, he's gonna have to pay people a lot this year anyways, the names will just be different. Bynum is long term as well. He'll spend the bucks on players because they win. He won't pay a shitload for Phil because he could hire a good coach for a 3rd of that and still have championship teams.

What does the Cavs offer? Expirings and JJ? Brown has arguably as bright of a future as JJ has shown the past 2 years. Money isn't a huge issue to Buss. He's fine with it as long as it keeps his dynasty going. I think he just doesn't wanna pay Phil 12M because he still thinks he could win a ring with a coach getting 4M.

The NY trade would be difficult because he's have to agree. I don't know if that happens in NO, I very much doubt it. He would help them because they'd help him get the money he thinks he deserves. The Knicks wont pay him 10M+, but they'll sign him for that much and ship him off to a team that will pay it. I know they would go other routes, hence why I said when everything else fails.

All these trades are a stretch, that's my whole point in talking about this lol. Dirk is opting out to try and resign an extention, not to leave. Cuban will pay Haywood the best out of anybody if he thinks it gets him closer to a ring. Sure the Mavs like their young guy, but man, we're talking about CP3. He get him in a heartbeat if he could.

NO is under the luxary tax now. It'll take a pretty nice trade to get rid of the best PG in the game. Taking on Okafor, although really nice, just isn't enough IMO. The relief is a must, but so is young talent. Cavs just can't do it alone. A third team is definitely need IMO, and that is anybody's guess.

jpake1 wrote: NO is under the luxary tax now. It'll take a pretty nice trade to get rid of the best PG in the game. Taking on Okafor, although really nice, just isn't enough IMO. The relief is a must, but so is young talent. Cavs just can't do it alone. A third team is definitely need IMO, and that is anybody's guess.

Yes, there under the luxury tax with no MLE and cap space to sign anyone. They cannot make their team better and in the West they have fallen behind.

It comes down to how NO views JJ and like the multiple teams this past trade deadline, I think NO would love to have him.

This year, they can't make themselves better for this year. But they can make themselves worse by giving up CP3 and not even getting a near allstar talent back. NO had A LOT of injuries last year. With a healthy team, they might be fighting for the playoffs after this offseason possible shake up. NO has been patient with a bad situation. I think they do it for another year and allow Peja and MoPete's 20M+ to come off, and maybe even West's 7.5M.

If Cleveland wants Chris Paul AND Emeka Okafor...IMO it would cost:

MO Williams
JJ Hickson
Antawn Jamison
A 1st Round Draft Pick
Cash

Wow.

Brilliant post gibby. You've really outdone yourself...

It's the truth SQ..they are not going to give away agruably the best PG in the NBA and a premier PF

gibby08 wrote: If Cleveland wants Chris Paul AND Emeka Okafor...IMO it would cost:

MO Williams
JJ Hickson
Antawn Jamison
A 1st Round Draft Pick
Cash

No, no it wouldn't.

How does that help NO out financially by taking back Jamison's contract along with Mo's? There is no expiring deals within those three players. Talent wise yes it makes sense since Williams/Jamison/JJ are a good trio with talent but why not keep CP3/Okafur if you don't get any cap relief lol.

If anything it would be either Mo or Jamison, plus expirings, JJ, cash, and picks.

But stacking 22 million in contracts that don't expire next season won't do it for NO.

West will be included in any major trade as he offers 4+ million in immediate relief. Then you need to add in another expiring which could be Moon, AP, Telfair, or Powe in order of largest to smallest.

You Cleveland fans need to get it through your heads that they are not going to simply just give away their franchise to please Lebron James

Okafur is a premiere PF?

Yes he is

You could atleast spell his name right

gibby08 wrote: You Cleveland fans need to get it through your heads that they are not going to simply just give away their franchise to please Lebron James

And you need to get through your head that NO won't just swap salaries with Mo/Jamison and CP3/Okafur just to land late picks and JJ.

That is basically your trade scenario is swap salaries and add JJ into the mix with a late 2011 1st rounder.

Why the fuck would NO not want any cap relief THIS season?

Okafor is a C first off, at least that is what he is labeled on the web.

Secondly, a premiere player does not average 10.4 ppg and 9 rpg in 29 mpg.

But please tell me why you think NO would do your trade without any cap relief whatsoever?