Exactly.

I don't mind dynasty either, now that he's put his big boy pants on and gotten over the "collapse" thread BS and he doesn't bring it up on every thread so that we can actually have a discussion and not ruin threads with that shit.

You guys...

LOL...I mean, do we not have a good point?

Just be who you are, no one is going to make fun of you for being a "casual" fan. Just don't parade around like you're the be all end all of NBA knowledge.

SQ_Crazies wrote: LOL...I mean, do we not have a good point?

The point remains a point, in which it is dually noted and saved for another day.

SQ_Crazies wrote:

Just be who you are, no one is going to make fun of you for being a "casual" fan. Just don't parade around like you're the be all end all of NBA knowledge.

I agree, I already said that though lol.

Well. Good call then.

With all this Bosh and CP3 talk...what about the Cavs picking up Dirk IF he opts out? Interesting thought, and definitely very possible.

SQ_Crazies wrote: With all this Bosh and CP3 talk...what about the Cavs picking up Dirk IF he opts out? Interesting thought, and definitely very possible.

My friend and I were talking about this yesterday. This is something you can't talk about on here though, because people automatically assume that because you're talking about it, you think it's going to happen.

LOL, true.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Dumb enough to take him? Jamison is an upgrade at the 4 for 95% of the league...

95%? SMH.

hoops23 wrote:

thedynasty1998 wrote:

devil1197 wrote: Like I said, most of your list wouldn't make Cleveland better but Camby has been discussed with Cleveland before. Getting guys like Blake or Ridinour won't keep LeBron.

Its not just West, expirings and JJ. Depending on who the player is, you can insert a good player like Mo/JJ/expirings/picks for a star/bad contract. There are so many options for Cleveland as they have cap holds, expirings, young talent in JJ and even Mo who is only 26 or 27, and most importantly the money to take on bad contracts and pay the luxury tax.

Plus, enter in 3 team trades and you'll end up with more talent. No one expected Cleveland to get Jamison for the 31st pick, but it happens in the NBA because of the different options available.

No one wanted Jamison. Washington wanted to get rid of him for anything, due to his terrible contract. The Cavs were just dumb enough to bite. He didn't make them any better. He has actually set them back.

Who do you think they are going to get to make them better then? I just don't understand your thought process here. I'm not criticizing you, I just honestly don't understand it. I just don't see an elite player like Paul or Bosh joining them. I think you are going to have to get B level player who can make the team better, someone like a Camby or Ridnour.

I disagree that Jamison didn't make them better.

If Jamison was used right (how many times does this have to be said) he would have made a HUGE difference.

Terry Pluto was just on ABAO and said the SAME exact thing.

Paired with Shaq, Mike Brown tried to make Jamison a spot up shooter... HE'S NOT!!!! He's best when he's used in the low block where he can use his unorthodox style of shooting and cutting the lanes.

AGAIN, the Cavs (most notably Mike Brown) DID NOT use Jamison right.

I'd be 100% perfectly fine with keeping Jamison if our next coach properly uses his abilities.

When Shaq's on the court, there's no room for anyone else on the low block.

Jamison was a better player when Shaq was on the bench. But then again, who wasn't?

I'm the President of the United States.

EDIT: I saw it dynasty...good choice to delete it, I won't spill the beans but you would have been destroyed for that one. Right or wrong, you get beat up pretty bad when you make claims like that on a forum.

Dirk, Bosh, CP3, and Ray Allen to the Cavs.

Then Lebron still leaves.

Then the world explodes.

devil1197 wrote: dynasty, for stating that you are a casual Cav/NBA fan you sure talk like you know everything about these guys and what Cleveland should have done.

I don't have a problem having a debate with you, but you are going to have to start looking up some stuff for your own sake. Read up on some NBA trades and the different options at the teams disposal and you'll realize that these trades are realistic. Its all about timing and the situations teams are in.

Cleveland has enough to work with to pull off a big deal, if they didn't have enough then Gilbert wouldn't be talking about making the big deal. You need to understand that its not just as cut and dry as CP3 being a star, its about combining bad contracts with CP3 to reload. NO isn't going anywhere with CP3 at the PG spot and no money to build around him. Their attendance sucks with CP3 there so losing a little money but saving more on contracts evens out.

Teams don't like to trade their stars, but in the end its about money for these owners and the true fans know that.

I said I'm a casual fan in terms of a rooting interest. I don't watch much of the the regular season, but I watch enough and keep up with it. I'm more of a fan of watching certain players rather than teams.

As for my basketball knowledge, I've had a good amount of personal success in basketball and has been complimented on my basketball IQ. And I even had an NBA team request tape of me in college. And I don't say that to brag, I say that to give myself some credibility since some are doubting it.

I don't have to agree with everyone on here to contribute something, at least I don't think. I try to provide my opinion and back it up. I've backed up my stance on the Cavs current situation and on certain players with numbers.

As for Chris Paul, I covered that trade on this thread with the proposed trade. It doesn't give New Orleans any cap relief if they make that trade, and that's the only way I see them doing it.

Look at it from their perspective, they can't just trade away their best guy to bring in some average NBA players with matching salaries.

I hope the Cavs can pull something off, and I've said that I think they should do it via free agency because there will be some guys out there that can make the team better.

You look at the NBA field now, and you have Boston who is obviously the best of the East, but they get a year older and Allen is a free agent. Orlando might be in panic mode after this series, so who knows what direction they go in. That means the Cavs are still right there next year and if they can make a small move by adding someone like Ridnour or Camby, that might put them over the hump and back into the finals. Once you are in the finals anything can happen, although I still think the Lakers are the best team.

SQ_Crazies wrote: I'm the President of the United States.

EDIT: I saw it dynasty...good choice to delete it, I won't spill the beans but you would have been destroyed for that one. Right or wrong, you get beat up pretty bad when you make claims like that on a forum.

I was on the blackberry and decided to go ahead and get the laptop to better explain myself.

FYI, I never really brought up the Celtics collapse thread to insult you, because I have no problem with you making a prediction and it not being right. I've brought up your comments about Noah because I didn't think you were fair with them.

thedynasty, you didn't prove anything with the CP3 trade.

You simply stated CP3 for Mo/West/JJ/picks wouldn't do it, well guess what that wouldn't be the trade and if you think it would be then lolz.

The only way Cleveland will get CP3 is if they take on a bad contract of Okafur's, which Gilbert would have no problem doing. In taking Okafur's salary plus CP3's, NO will save significant money. That's the way these type of trades work. You want my star player, well you take this terrible contract with you and give us your best young prospect (JJ), cap relief, and picks.

If Cleveland signs LeBron and retain everyone they should, they would only have the MLE to work with in free agency. Do you really think 5 million or so is going to go that far in a market where multiple teams have a ton of cap space to throw at players who may not be worthy of such money?

Plus, Cleveland isn't going to be able to go after the top players outside of the elite group until LeBron signs. Guys like Camby or Blake won't sign to Cleveland if LeBron hasn't made his decision. So the Cavs can only hope that the elite group of FA's go first in selecting their teams before the 2nd level guys start deciding.

thedynasty1998 wrote: I've brought up your comments about Noah because I didn't think you were fair with them.

Well, I thought the Darnell Jackson reference was clearly exaggerated sarcasm, but I still sort of stand by what I said--because just about any NBA player could put up those numbers when no one puts a body on them for the entire game. And that IS what happened with Noah. The guy averages 8 and 8 for his career--yes he is improving, yes he is still young but thats on hardly 50% shooting (not great for a big man). Then he has a few big games in the playoffs because literally no one pays attention to him (and the Cavs won the series 4-1 lol) because they don't have to, and he starts getting talked about like he's an All Star. I never said Darnell Jackson was as good, but if you watched the games, it was clear that he just put up numbers because our defense let him roam free. You'd think if you know the game that well, you would have seen the same thing--and I'm not doubting your knowledge of the game, but if you are who you say then there is no way you couldn't have seen the same thing.

The Bulls have one scorer in Rose, so yes they focused on stopping him. Its similar to how teams play Lebron. If Noah was successful it was partly due to a focus on Rose, but that can be said about someone on every NBA roster, and if Varejao was as good a defender as some think, he should have shut him down (I know his back slowed him).

And I think $6 million can go a ways with someone like Ridnour or Blake, so they can find someone via free agency to improve the team, especially if you are selling the whole play with Lebron argument.

thedynasty1998 wrote: and if Varejao was as good a defender as some think, he should have shut him down (I know his back slowed him).

Well, the Cavs were a very team oriented defensive team. Rotation was HUGE, the mindset was you get beat don't try to recover--just go pick someone else up. On top of that, like you mentioned you have your scouting report and it was very clear that it was to let Noah roam and not focus much on him. As easily as Rose could get into the paint, we had to suck in and allow Noah to have some space.

But...

Game 1:
Noah had 10 and 8. Andy played 32 minute and had 8 and 15. He also aggravated his back injury again late in game 1.

After that he was ineffective most of the series and his minutes went down in every game until game 5. Basically, in the ONE game when he was actually healthy, he did play well on Noah. I don't know about you, but I've had back issues before and it's hard to believe guys can even play at all when they're suffering from any sort of back problem. It clearly bothered him a lot, even more so in the series with the Celtics. Noah had a few great games against basically no defense and his team lost the series in 5 games and all of a sudden he goes from a role player to a stud? No. The tape tells the story.

thedynasty1998 wrote: The Bulls have one scorer in Rose, so yes they focused on stopping him. Its similar to how teams play Lebron. If Noah was successful it was partly due to a focus on Rose, but that can be said about someone on every NBA roster, and if Varejao was as good a defender as some think, he should have shut him down (I know his back slowed him).

And I think $6 million can go a ways with someone like Ridnour or Blake, so they can find someone via free agency to improve the team, especially if you are selling the whole play with Lebron argument.

Ridnour or Blake are not going to be any better than Mo Williams imo. Their not the type of player that is going to put Cleveland over the top nor entice LeBron to stay.

Their MLE is going to go to a big man anyways unless they focus their trade options on a C. They will be thin up front with Shaq going elsewhere and Z retiring.

Gilbert stated in an article about Brown's firing that he'll take any risk when it comes to improving the roster for next season.

Yep, the MLE would go to a big man, not another inconsistent PG who isn't even as good as Mo Williams to begin with.

If I could be granted one trade wish, I think it would be getting CP3 and Okafor. That kills two birds with one stone and makes our team great defensively, not only 1-on-1, but weak side as well.

Then use the MLE for an offensive minded center, maybe a guy like Frye or something...

Of course, that's a pipe dream, but we'll see what happens.

Fuck Frye, you see that MFer against the Lakers? Just another Mo, shits down his leg when it matters most.

And I agree that overall they aren't as good as Mo, but I'd actually take Blake and Ridnour over Mo anyday as long as they were running with LeBron--they're better floor generals. Although, I think they can get a better PG than that--and if not, you stick with Mo and see if the new coach (whomever he may be) can find a different way to utilize him.

Like Antawn here, Frye isn't utilized right in PHX. I don't know why they keep him at the 3 point line, especially when he's in a slump. He's got a good post game and a very good mid range shot. And I didn't say Frye as THE guy, just saying a guy like Frye, who's more known for his offense than defense.

I'm not going to take Ridnour or Blake over Mo either. Not even close.

What do you give up for CP3/Okafor? Some of you guys are some of the more popular NBA posters, but I am not seeing what you're seeing in this NO/Cavs talk. If I'm the owner of NO, nothing about that trade gets a phone call longer than 3 seconds when it comes to CP3.

jpake1 wrote: What do you give up for CP3/Okafor? Some of you guys are some of the more popular NBA posters, but I am not seeing what you're seeing in this NO/Cavs talk. If I'm the owner of NO, nothing about that trade gets a phone call longer than 3 seconds when it comes to CP3.

lol, I'm not saying it's happening, I'm just saying if I could hand pick one deal to get done/make happen, it would be this deal.