Impressed by the Trump administration part II

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 87 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 10:53 AM

There's like 50-60 cents a gallon in taxes, for starters.

Then you have refinery costs.  Distribution/transportation costs.  And special "summer blends" for environmental reasons also make gas significantly more expensive in the summer.

But take a look at Canada or Europe and then tell me gas companies are gouging us.

justincredible Honorable Admin
37,969 posts 178 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 10:57 AM

Gov't makes more per gallon than the oil companies, don't they?

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 87 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 11:01 AM
posted by justincredible

Gov't makes more per gallon than the oil companies, don't they?

Probably.  I haven't looked at it in a long time, but I think crack spreads (the difference between raw and refined crude) are something like 20 cents a gallon.

Actually, crack spreads just hit a 6-yr low...$6.11 per barrel - a barrel holds 42 gallons, so the spread is about 15 cents per gallon.

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 11:08 AM
posted by gut

There's like 50-60 cents a gallon in taxes, for starters.

Then you have refinery costs.  Distribution/transportation costs.  And special "summer blends" for environmental reasons also make gas significantly more expensive in the summer.

But take a look at Canada or Europe and then tell me gas companies are gouging us.

Bingo.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 12:31 PM
posted by justincredible

Gov't makes more per gallon than the oil companies, don't they?

Hence not part of the free market

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 32 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 12:55 PM

Those taxes are supposed to pay for highway repair, which is why they were originally passed. Now it just goes into general funds and therefore gets spent on un-needed wars and bank bailouts.

 

But yes, the oil companies make roughly 9-10% profit which on $3.00/gallon gasoline is not quite 30 cents per gallon profit. 

With the new Ohio tax as of July 1 Ohio taxes gasoline at 28.01 cents/gallon, add in the federal tax of 18.4 cents/gallon and you have the government making 46.41 cents/gal here in Ohio while the oil company makes 30 cents.

Ohio was one of the lowest state tax (next to Alaska and Missouri) before this hike. Now we are more around the 15th cheapest state now.  

 

California and Pennsylvania are the highest, which is why if I am traveling east I try to fill up in Ohio before I start driving through PA.

 

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 32 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 1:02 PM

Cigarettes are the other consumer item (maybe alcohol too) that the government makes more than the producer when sold.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 53 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 1:16 PM
posted by Spock

Lets not believe that the gas industry is part of the "free market".  The local bakery is "free market".  Gas and oil is highly regulated, controlled, monopolized, subsidized outside the "free market".  

If we are producing that much oil, gas prices should be way down.  Oil producing countries all have way lower price points.  Only in America does it jump up 30-40% in one day based on a holiday or a weekend.  

retail price history:

 

2010

2.79

2011

3.53

2012

3.64

2013

3.53

2014

3.37

 

 

I will take where we are today.

 

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 2:38 PM
posted by Spock

Hence not part of the free market

Nobody said it was completely free.  However, the rules of supply and demand do exist, even our regulated markets, and those are free market concepts.  You're falling into the trap of a false dichotomy, insisting that if it's not a totally free market, that no elements of a free market economy exist.

You said $2.99 was price gouging.  If it's caused exclusively by governing bodies and regulatory agencies, then it's not gouging.  If it's caused by the oil or gas companies, then it's businesses changing prices to fit what they think they can earn based on supply and demand rules, which is a free market concept.

Either way, it's not "gouging."  You can be mad about it and grumble about it all you want, but the oil companies have every right to set their prices however they want.

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 53 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 2:41 PM

“Payrolls [surged] by 224,000 jobs in June, the government reported last Friday. The unemployment rate rose one-tenth of a percentage point to 3.7% as more people entered the labor market, a sign of confidence in their employment prospects.”

 

 

It is time to slash welfare benefits by 30% to bring people into the job market and fill the millions of open jobs, and help balance the budget.

Devils Advocate Brudda o da bomber
4,899 posts 94 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 2:58 PM
posted by QuakerOats

retail price history:

 

2010

2.79

2011

3.53

2012

3.64

2013

3.53

2014

3.37

 

 

I will take where we are today.

 

Better than July 2008. I am sure you just neglected to go back to the Bush years.

4.11 a gallon....... Wow

 

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 20 reps Joined Oct 2010
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 3:37 PM

Oh no Quaker.  It looks like Trump's tariffs are causing problems for US Steel.  I'm sure you'll say that the market is simply making itself more efficient.  But that's not what Trump was touting.  He stood at US Steel Granite City and bragged about how he was bringing jobs back.  Now US Steel is idling blast furnaces left and right.  

 

I'm sure this is somehow Obama's fault.  

 

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/manufacturing/trump-tariff-twist-thats-cost-us-steel-56-billion

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 87 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 3:46 PM
posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

 I'm sure you'll say that the market is simply making itself more efficient. 

Actually, that's exactly what the article you posted says.  Didn't read it, huh?

jmog Senior Member
7,737 posts 32 reps Joined Nov 2009
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 8:57 PM
Aposted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Oh no Quaker.  It looks like Trump's tariffs are causing problems for US Steel.  I'm sure you'll say that the market is simply making itself more efficient.  But that's not what Trump was touting.  He stood at US Steel Granite City and bragged about how he was bringing jobs back.  Now US Steel is idling blast furnaces left and right.  

 

I'm sure this is somehow Obama's fault.  

 

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/manufacturing/trump-tariff-twist-thats-cost-us-steel-56-billion

Did you actually READ the article you posted?

 

You obviously did not read it or you didn’t understand it. 

 

As someone who has worked for various suppliers to the steel industry since about 2002 let me explain it. 

 

Blast furnaces are a century old technology that takes raw iron or and coke (derivative of coal) to turn it into new steel. It’s the way to create steel from raw ingredients. This furnace uses a ton of energy from burning fuels to accomplish this (usually coke oven gas which is a mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide with other things).

 

To recycle scrap steal they use an electric arc furnace (think two huge electrodes zapping the crap out of the steal with a ton of electricity). It is more efficient to recycle steel in this manner than it is to create it from original iron ore and coal. 

 

The article states that newer plants with these EAFs are doing great and US Steel is creating new facilities with EAFs to be more efficient and compete. 

 

Make sense? You had a pretty big fail there with that post. 

Dr Winston O'Boogie Senior Member
3,345 posts 20 reps Joined Oct 2010
Wed, Jul 10, 2019 9:59 PM

You guys are reading way too much into my post. I was being humorous with QO because of his Trump-can-do-no-wrong slant. I have spent most of my career in the mining and steel industries, so I am thoroughly familiar with integrated vs EAF production - and the shift between them that has been underway for 50 years. 

 

The article wasn’t really about that  it was about his visit to a particular plant where he took credit for bringing jobs back to that specific plant, and now that furnace is idled.  Just funny since no president - repub or dem - is nearly as powerful on the economic stage as Trump thinks he is  

 

ill be be happy to discuss the intricacies of the steel industry anytime though  

 

 

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 53 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Jul 11, 2019 3:17 PM

 

 

DJIA  27,000 +

 

S&P  3,000 +

 

 

Do your dd

 

 

Take care

 

gut Senior Member
18,369 posts 87 reps Joined Nov 2009
Thu, Jul 11, 2019 4:06 PM
posted by QuakerOats

DJIA  27,000 +

I was more pleased with news inflation exceeded expectations and ticked above the target 2.0%.  I would like to see a fed funds rate of at least 4.0% before the next recession (more bullets in the gun).

Longest recovery in history - Thanks, Obama! (though not for the reasons some would think) - but it's going to be a nail-biter if we make it past the 2020 elections.

Spock Senior Member
5,271 posts 9 reps Joined Jul 2013
Thu, Jul 11, 2019 6:13 PM

Dow this high is ridiculous and to even mention Obama at this point is stupid.  

QuakerOats Senior Member
11,701 posts 53 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jul 29, 2019 11:44 AM

 

High court OKs use of $2.5B in defense money for border wall

The Trump administration can use $2.5 billion of Defense Department money to build more than 100 miles of fencing at the southern border, the Supreme Court says. Justices have overturned rulings by two lower courts and have cleared the way for work to commence

O-Trap Chief Shenanigans Officer
18,909 posts 140 reps Joined Nov 2009
Mon, Jul 29, 2019 1:24 PM

What a pair of dipshits.

Texas hunters who accidentally shot each other blamed undocumented immigrants, police reveal

When in doubt, blame the immigrants, I guess.

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