Church Challenges Beck

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Strapping Young Lad's avatar

Strapping Young Lad

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2,453 posts
Mar 16, 2010 3:25 PM
JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
Mar 16, 2010 3:25pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Mar 16, 2010 3:32 PM
Strapping Young Lad wrote:
JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
This....and the Bible also teaches to love thy neighbor as thyself. Yet, many religious factions, including my fellow Catholics of yesteryear, orchestrasted brutal torture during periods of history, like the Inquisition.
Mar 16, 2010 3:32pm
BCBulldog's avatar

BCBulldog

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824 posts
Mar 16, 2010 6:32 PM
Strapping Young Lad wrote:
JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
Nice try, but it speaks of willingly helping the poor, not intentionally subjecting yourself to socialist redistribution of wealth. The Bible also says that if a man will not work, he shall not eat.
Mar 16, 2010 6:32pm
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Footwedge

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9,265 posts
Mar 16, 2010 6:45 PM
BCBulldog wrote:
Strapping Young Lad wrote:
JU-ICE wrote: He is not telling people to leave their churches if they ask them to help the poor, he is saying if your church is talking about redistribution of wealth and those things then you should find a new church.
The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
Nice try, but it speaks of willingly helping the poor, not intentionally subjecting yourself to socialist redistribution of wealth. The Bible also says that if a man will not work, he shall not eat.
The Bible also talks about teaching people to fish...but no chapter and verse relating to outsourcing of all the fishermen.
Mar 16, 2010 6:45pm
Captain Cavalier's avatar

Captain Cavalier

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208 posts
Mar 16, 2010 7:01 PM
ManO'War wrote: It seems that those two statements pretty much go hand in hand.
I guess you could say that. If the Church teaches about a moral issue such as abortion, then one could or might take that as supporting those that appose abortion.
Strapping Young Lad wrote:The Bible preaches redistribution of wealth.
Yet that was voluntary distribution..."charity". I don't believe it was mandated. Jesus preached that it should be given from a true heart.
Mar 16, 2010 7:01pm
Strapping Young Lad's avatar

Strapping Young Lad

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2,453 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:24 PM
I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....
Mar 16, 2010 11:24pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:33 PM
Strapping Young Lad wrote: I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....

What?!

I've never been given, while in Church, that I'll be subject to "eternal damnation" if I didn't/couldn't give a donation.

EVER.

If you've seriously been to a church that practices this, then it's no wonder you have the feelings about God that you do.
Mar 16, 2010 11:33pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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5,122 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:45 PM
Strapping Young Lad wrote: I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....
Which protestant churches press people to tithe in order to save their souls? Since you say you know some. Just want to know which ones to avoid.
Mar 16, 2010 11:45pm
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majorspark

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5,122 posts
Mar 16, 2010 11:48 PM
CenterBHSFan wrote:
Strapping Young Lad wrote: I don't now dudes. I know Protestant churches really press people to give their 10% under the guise of eternal damnation. Sounds like redistribution of wealth to me....

What?!

I've never been given, while in Church, that I'll be subject to "eternal damnation" if I didn't/couldn't give a donation.

EVER.

If you've seriously been to a church that practices this, then it's no wonder you have the feelings about God that you do.
There are some strange religious groups out there but my guess is the young lad is just spouting some late night BS.
Mar 16, 2010 11:48pm
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I Wear Pants

Senior Member

16,223 posts
Mar 17, 2010 1:12 AM
The following is from an About.com article (I know, real reputable). I thought it was interesting but please feel free to point out its flaws. Just don't attack me as the article doesn't necessarily represent my views I just thought it was intriguing.
One topic of discussion which comes up every so often is the connection between fervent evangelical Christianity and equally fervent anti-communism. In the minds of many Americans, atheism and communism are indelibly linked and political actions opposed to communism have long taken the form of strengthening America's public Christianity.

It was thus that the American government made “In God We Trust” the national motto and put it on all money in the 1950s. It was also for this reason that “under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance around the same time.

Because of all this, one gets the impression that the Bible is some sort of treatise on capitalism and Jesus an early venture capitalist. The fact that just the opposite appears to be true is thus very surprising. The book of Acts has two explicit passages depicting the very communistic nature of the early Christian community:

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
(Acts 2:44-45)

There was not a needy person among them, for as many as owned lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds of what was sold. They laid it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to each as any had need. There was a Levite, a native of Cyprus, Joseph, to whom the apostles gave the name Barnabas (which means “son of encouragement”). He sold a field that belonged to him, then brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
(Acts 4:34-37)

Is it possible that Marx’s famous line “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” took its inspiration directly from the New Testament? Immediately following this second passage is a very interesting story about a couple, Ananias and Sapphira, who sold a piece of property but only gave the community a portion of the proceeds, keeping some of it for themselves. When Peter confronts them with this, they both fall down and die - leaving the impression (for many people) that they were struck dead.

Killing bourgeoisie land owners who fail to give all of their money to the community? That’s not merely communism, that’s Stalinism.

Of course, in addition to the above, there are many, many statements attributed to Jesus which emphasize doing all that you can to help the poor — even to the point of him recommending that a rich man sell all of his possessions and give the money to the poor if he really wishes to get into heaven. The Old Testament also indicates that something akin to communism is the preferable way to live:

This is what the Lord has commanded: Gather of it, every man of you, as much as he can eat; you shall take an omer apiece, according to the number of persons who each of you has in his tent. And the people of Israel did so; they gathered some more, some less. But when they measured it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; each gathered according to what he could eat
(Ex. 16:16-18)

It is no wonder, then, that any number of Christian groups have adopted ways of living which, while explicitly based upon biblical stories, are also expressions of communist ideals. Such groups include the Shakers, Mormons, Hutterites and more.

In summary, this isn’t so much a problem with the Bible as it is a problem with the people who claim to follow the Bible and use it as their primary guide to how they should live their lives. Some certainly take passages like the above to heart — witness the strong social ethic of many Catholics and the very communistic Liberation Theology which has developed out of Catholicism.

Most, however, simply ignore the above passages - just as they ignore so much else which is politically or morally inconvenient.
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Mar 17, 2010 1:12am
ptown_trojans_1's avatar

ptown_trojans_1

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Mar 17, 2010 7:31 AM
I Wear Pants wrote: The following is from an About.com article (I know, real reputable).
Link?
Mar 17, 2010 7:31am
I

I Wear Pants

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16,223 posts
Mar 17, 2010 2:21 PM
ptown_trojans_1 wrote:
I Wear Pants wrote: The following is from an About.com article (I know, real reputable).
Link?
http://atheism.about.com/od/thebible/a/communism.htm

I lol'd at the address. Atheism.about.com
Mar 17, 2010 2:21pm
Strapping Young Lad's avatar

Strapping Young Lad

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2,453 posts
Mar 17, 2010 3:13 PM
Since Jesus speaks of these ideas of giving away possessions along with affluence and salvation, I don't think it's a stretch for the church to preach the idea that you must give your dues to the church.

Of course today, in America, we'll twist these words around to fit our lifestyle instead of twisting our lifestyle to fit the word of God.

I don't recall the saints driving BMW's. Wonder why many of them chose to live a life of poverty and humility......Probably b/c that's what Jesus said to do. Why is a church off base to preach these ideas???

I know YOU wouldn't actually want to confront these choices. YOU want to read the words of Jesus selectivly. As long as you can still live how you want you'll claim Christianity. But as soon as they start asking you to actually live that way, you don't wanna hear it.

LOL @ Christianity in America......
Mar 17, 2010 3:13pm
BCBulldog's avatar

BCBulldog

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824 posts
Mar 17, 2010 3:27 PM
Strapping Young Lad wrote: Since Jesus speaks of these ideas of giving away possessions along with affluence and salvation, I don't think it's a stretch for the church to preach the idea that you must give your dues to the church.

Of course today, in America, we'll twist these words around to fit our lifestyle instead of twisting our lifestyle to fit the word of God.

I don't recall the saints driving BMW's. Wonder why many of them chose to live a life of poverty and humility......Probably b/c that's what Jesus said to do. Why is a church off base to preach these ideas???

I know YOU wouldn't actually want to confront these choices. YOU want to read the words of Jesus selectivly. As long as you can still live how you want you'll claim Christianity. But as soon as they start asking you to actually live that way, you don't wanna hear it.

LOL @ Christianity in America......
Dig deeper. Christ himself was what we consider now to be middle-upper class. If you look closer at the parable of the rich young ruler, you will see that it wasn't about money, but that the man was beholden to it which kept him seperated from God. The Bible speaks often about money and being good stewards of it. It would be difficult to be a good steward of money if you have none. Certainly greed is a sin, but wealth is not.
Mar 17, 2010 3:27pm
Strapping Young Lad's avatar

Strapping Young Lad

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2,453 posts
Mar 17, 2010 3:29 PM
Tell it to St. Peter, honey.
Mar 17, 2010 3:29pm
BCBulldog's avatar

BCBulldog

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824 posts
Mar 17, 2010 4:06 PM
He already knows, sweetheart.
Mar 17, 2010 4:06pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 17, 2010 7:53 PM
Strapping Young Lad wrote: Tell it to St. Peter, honey.
Why would he have to tell St. Peter? You were the one who didn't understand correctly. Did you not want the explaination?
Mar 17, 2010 7:53pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Mar 17, 2010 11:48 PM
BCBulldog wrote:
Strapping Young Lad wrote: Since Jesus speaks of these ideas of giving away possessions along with affluence and salvation, I don't think it's a stretch for the church to preach the idea that you must give your dues to the church.

Of course today, in America, we'll twist these words around to fit our lifestyle instead of twisting our lifestyle to fit the word of God.

I don't recall the saints driving BMW's. Wonder why many of them chose to live a life of poverty and humility......Probably b/c that's what Jesus said to do. Why is a church off base to preach these ideas???

I know YOU wouldn't actually want to confront these choices. YOU want to read the words of Jesus selectivly. As long as you can still live how you want you'll claim Christianity. But as soon as they start asking you to actually live that way, you don't wanna hear it.

LOL @ Christianity in America......
Dig deeper. Christ himself was what we consider now to be middle-upper class. If you look closer at the parable of the rich young ruler, you will see that it wasn't about money, but that the man was beholden to it which kept him seperated from God. The Bible speaks often about money and being good stewards of it. It would be difficult to be a good steward of money if you have none. Certainly greed is a sin, but wealth is not.
Carpenters made some serious coin back then....:D
Mar 17, 2010 11:48pm
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captain_obvious

Member

82 posts
Mar 21, 2010 10:22 PM
yeah, but the Union dues killed them...
Mar 21, 2010 10:22pm
CenterBHSFan's avatar

CenterBHSFan

333 - I'm only half evil

6,115 posts
Mar 21, 2010 10:30 PM
captain_obvious wrote: yeah, but the Union dues killed them...
I don't really have anything important to say, but that made me, literally, LOL!
Mar 21, 2010 10:30pm