rmolin73;1597666 wrote:Damn I agree with you on this.

And getting expensive tattoos...oh wait...

Just a simple case of an institution or company becoming so corrupt the employees had no choice to unionize. Sad stuff but the NCAA and the system itself is abusive, just as Jack Ford on Colin Cowherd's show said, these kids have no way to make money at all because of their year round schedules and yet their merch is worth a ridiculous amount. It is almost sickening to see how many people are wearing scarlet #5 on Saturdays in the Shoe and yet he gets absolutely nothing at all. Maybe because I'm younger I feel for them but man 5 years with no chance to make really any money in that timeframe at all sucks

Classyposter58;1598058 wrote:Just a simple case of an institution or company becoming so corrupt the employees had no choice to unionize. Sad stuff but the NCAA and the system itself is abusive, just as Jack Ford on Colin Cowherd's show said, these kids have no way to make money at all because of their year round schedules and yet their merch is worth a ridiculous amount. It is almost sickening to see how many people are wearing scarlet #5 on Saturdays in the Shoe and yet he gets absolutely nothing at all. Maybe because I'm younger I feel for them but man 5 years with no chance to make really any money in that timeframe at all sucks

But the fault lies at the feet of the cheaters, not the NCAA. The NCAA really has no option then to outlaw all money.

I'd be ok with some arrangement to pay them for merchandise sales, but it would still be really limited and regulated. And it would affect so few players when you really step back and look at it.

Classyposter58;1598058 wrote:Just a simple case of an institution or company becoming so corrupt the employees had no choice to unionize. Sad stuff but the NCAA and the system itself is abusive, just as Jack Ford on Colin Cowherd's show said, these kids have no way to make money at all because of their year round schedules and yet their merch is worth a ridiculous amount. It is almost sickening to see how many people are wearing scarlet #5 on Saturdays in the Shoe and yet he gets absolutely nothing at all. Maybe because I'm younger I feel for them but man 5 years with no chance to make really any money in that timeframe at all sucks

gets absolutely nothing at all? they have the opportunity to leave college with an education for free or at least with less debt than most students and in a few cases, spotlighted in such a way they get drafted into the NFL or NBA etc. So not only do they get a chance for close to $100,000 in education, they get promoted to the professional sports, which can be worth millions for a few. the sale of their merchandise pays for their programs, which gets them promoted and put in the spotlight.

if they want to work a job and focus on their education, last I checked, no one was forcing them to play sports.

Fault always lies at the feet of the cheaters. They are going to cheat no matter how many rules and regulations you make.....and that's where the NCAA comes in...they keep making rules and catching the kids that are relatively honest, then punishing them severely for picayune violations.

Glory Days;1598124 wrote:gets absolutely nothing at all? they have the opportunity to leave college with an education for free or at least with less debt than most students and in a few cases, spotlighted in such a way they get drafted into the NFL or NBA etc. So not only do they get a chance for close to $100,000 in education, they get promoted to the professional sports, which can be worth millions for a few. the sale of their merchandise pays for their programs, which gets them promoted and put in the spotlight.

if they want to work a job and focus on their education, last I checked, no one was forcing them to play sports.

Well, if we are talking about private schools only with this...the college education will be valued at $200,000-$240,000+ these days. Not to mention, many DI football programs are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars every year PER PLAYER. So, that only makes that educational value even more.

Classyposter58;1598058 wrote:Just a simple case of an institution or company becoming so corrupt the employees had no choice to unionize. Sad stuff but the NCAA and the system itself is abusive, just as Jack Ford on Colin Cowherd's show said, these kids have no way to make money at all because of their year round schedules and yet their merch is worth a ridiculous amount. It is almost sickening to see how many people are wearing scarlet #5 on Saturdays in the Shoe and yet he gets absolutely nothing at all. Maybe because I'm younger I feel for them but man 5 years with no chance to make really any money in that timeframe at all sucks

All of their college and living expenses are covered. In addition to this, they get a stipend, top medical care whenever they need it, access to all the tutoring and educational advantages possible. In exchange for this, you have to play a game. If this is being "abusive", there are millions of college students across the country that would love to be abused.

Al Bundy;1598168 wrote:All of their college and living expenses are covered. In addition to this, they get a stipend, top medical care whenever they need it, access to all the tutoring and educational advantages possible. In exchange for this, you have to play a game. If this is being "abusive", there are millions of college students across the country that would love to be abused.

Good post.

And to boot, those educational advantages are arguably greater than those offered to the general student body.

Al Bundy;1598168 wrote:All of their college and living expenses are covered. In addition to this, they get a stipend, top medical care whenever they need it, access to all the tutoring and educational advantages possible. In exchange for this, you have to play a game. If this is being "abusive", there are millions of college students across the country that would love to be abused.

abusive

The schools were the ones who ultimately put more emphasis on the athlete and less on the student over the last 3 decades. The average football player spends 41.6 hours per week on football and 38.2 hours on academics.

numbers: http://www.citytowninfo.com/career-and-education-news/articles/ncaa-study-shows-student-athletes-spend-less-time-on-academics-11021502

article: http://sportspolitico.com/2014/03/28/qa-on-northwestern-unionization/

So when players see their coaches getting paid millions, their jersey number being sold for over $100, and having to commit more time to college football than to academics, should we really be surprised that they are now asking for a cut?

Vulturous student athletes

Mohican00;1598212 wrote:abusive



numbers: http://www.citytowninfo.com/career-and-education-news/articles/ncaa-study-shows-student-athletes-spend-less-time-on-academics-11021502

article: http://sportspolitico.com/2014/03/28/qa-on-northwestern-unionization/



Vulturous student athletes

How much of the $1.3B in profit should the players of the D1 schools receive?

^^^absolutely zero....but they should not be unreasonably restricted from making small amounts of money nor punished unduly.

"Most of you are just going off on a tangent about this. Very few schools could actually afford to pay their players any significant amount of money beyond their scholarship value and it is even more ridiculous to suggest that giving that value in cash to 18-year-old kids is going to be spent wisely, no matter what their upbringing."

/thread

Aside from the very top of schools in the revenue sports...meaning football and men's basketball, where is the money coming from for the supermajority of student-athletes? Sure, the Alabama, and Ohio State, and Texas, and etc.'s of the NCAA make a ton of money, but it goes back into the athletic department. Most sports operated on a deficit that is funded by the revenue sports. Is the idea to pay certain student-athletes, and not others? I'm not sure that is a good idea, and likely isn't legal.

WebFire;1598083 wrote:But the fault lies at the feet of the cheaters, not the NCAA. The NCAA really has no option then to outlaw all money.

I'd be ok with some arrangement to pay them for merchandise sales, but it would still be really limited and regulated. And it would affect so few players when you really step back and look at it.

Why?

If I'm a college football player and I'm crazy popular/good and can sell a million jerseys why shouldn't I be able to?

College football especially at the Division 1 level is a professional sports league save for giving the players a monetary salary. Go elsewhere in the world and that caliber of competition is a professional league. They're the equivalent of the second tier soccer leagues in Europe. Those guys generally don't make a ton of money but they do get paid and can sell their popularity if they want. I don't see why a college athlete shouldn't be allowed to profit from merchandise. Hell if they want to run camps in the summer and make money I don't see the issue.

I Wear Pants;1599472 wrote:Why?

If I'm a college football player and I'm crazy popular/good and can sell a million jerseys why shouldn't I be able to?

College football especially at the Division 1 level is a professional sports league save for giving the players a monetary salary. Go elsewhere in the world and that caliber of competition is a professional league. They're the equivalent of the second tier soccer leagues in Europe. Those guys generally don't make a ton of money but they do get paid and can sell their popularity if they want. I don't see why a college athlete shouldn't be allowed to profit from merchandise. Hell if they want to run camps in the summer and make money I don't see the issue.

No, it's not a professional league. And if you think it's gotten close to that, then THAT needs fixed. Not just let it go. The reason it HAS to be limited is because of boosters, plain and simple.

"Hey recruit, I am a booster from Texas. I will pay you $500,000 in exchange for a jersey if you come to our school."
"Hey recruit, I am a booster from LSU. I will pay you $550,000 in exchange for a jersey if you come to our school."
"Hey recruit, I am a booster from Alabama. I will pay you $600,000 in exchange for a jersey if you come to our school."

Is that what you want?

This is the dumbest idea in the history of ideas, and I am convinced it will happen because this country is full of idiots.

I hope to God if NU is forced to accept this union BS that they just field a team of scrubs who aren't on scholarship, or better yet just disband football. D1 athletes know what they're signing up for, and say "YES". As would anyone. WHY? Because it's a good fucking deal. Literally only 0.00001% of these people would have the ability to go from HS to NFL/NBA (higher with basketball, but only say 5 a year out of 4,381 = .001%...). Why on God's green earth would we blow this whole thing up because the system isn't giving FMV to less than .001% of a population? It makes ZERO sense. And for the ones who would have a gripe about not going straight to NBA/NFL, there are alternatives. You can play BBALL in Europe, or you can play football in the Arena league. You'll still get noticed, and you can make money in the meantime. The value of the scholarship, the room and board and stipend... that is freaking VALUABLE. And they are accepting that value in exchange for their services. No one here is getting screwed. No one.

derek bomar;1599521 wrote:This is the dumbest idea in the history of ideas, and I am convinced it will happen because this country is full of idiots.

I hope to God if NU is forced to accept this union BS that they just field a team of scrubs who aren't on scholarship, or better yet just disband football. D1 athletes know what they're signing up for, and say "YES". As would anyone. WHY? Because it's a good fucking deal. Literally only 0.00001% of these people would have the ability to go from HS to NFL/NBA (higher with basketball, but only say 5 a year out of 4,381 = .001%...). Why on God's green earth would we blow this whole thing up because the system isn't giving FMV to less than .001% of a population? It makes ZERO sense. And for the ones who would have a gripe about not going straight to NBA/NFL, there are alternatives. You can play BBALL in Europe, or you can play football in the Arena league. You'll still get noticed, and you can make money in the meantime. The value of the scholarship, the room and board and stipend... that is freaking VALUABLE. And they are accepting that value in exchange for their services. No one here is getting screwed. No one.

Reps.

When I broke my ankle, I had to go through Physical Therapy. I was helped more often by students from local colleges than I was by the physical therapists that actually worked for the facility. These kids were assigned to a facility and worked there as if it was their job. Their pay? College credit and experience.

College kids that are majoring in education are required to "student-teach" where they literally take over a classroom and work as a teacher. They don't get paid for this...it's a required part of their curriculum.

Business majors are put into unpaid internships where they will work 40 hours a week while they are in school in order to have a better chance at a job when they graduate.

What's the difference between these groups of students and athletes that aren't "being paid" for playing their sport? More than likely, the ones I listed here are ALSO taking out loans, or going out of pocket, to cover their tuition. So I'm sorry if I don't feel bad for that these athletes aren't allowed to sell jerseys or autographs to make money.

You're upset that the NCAA makes a ton of money off of football and basketball? There's a life lesson for you, athletes...the people at the top of the pyramid will fuck over the ones at the bottom of the pyramid to make money. Welcome to the real world.

"You're upset that the NCAA makes a ton of money off of football and basketball?"

That is true to a certain level, and I agree with your general sentiment, but how many football and men's basketball programs are in the black absent a conference tv deal? My guess is that few programs actually operate with a net profit.

WebFire;1599511 wrote:No, it's not a professional league. And if you think it's gotten close to that, then THAT needs fixed. Not just let it go. The reason it HAS to be limited is because of boosters, plain and simple.

"Hey recruit, I am a booster from Texas. I will pay you $500,000 in exchange for a jersey if you come to our school."
"Hey recruit, I am a booster from LSU. I will pay you $550,000 in exchange for a jersey if you come to our school."
"Hey recruit, I am a booster from Alabama. I will pay you $600,000 in exchange for a jersey if you come to our school."

Is that what you want?

I don't really see the issue with that, seems like every other pro league. That just makes it more obvious that NCAA Football and Basketball are for profit endeavors.

I'm not a fan of athletics being tied to academics anyway though so that influences my opinion.

And how is it not a professional league? Look at the investment in stadiums and training as well as media deals. Look at the caliber of athletes. Everywhere else in the world, since they don't tie schools to athletics, the equivalent of NCAA Football or Basketball is a professional league. Maybe not the top tier league but not much lower.

Manhattan Buckeye;1599569 wrote:"You're upset that the NCAA makes a ton of money off of football and basketball?"

That is true to a certain level, and I agree with your general sentiment, but how many football and men's basketball programs are in the black absent a conference tv deal? My guess is that few programs actually operate with a net profit.

Don't professional sports leagues like the MLB and NFL have similar deals?

Manhattan Buckeye;1599569 wrote:"You're upset that the NCAA makes a ton of money off of football and basketball?"

That is true to a certain level, and I agree with your general sentiment, but how many football and men's basketball programs are in the black absent a conference tv deal? My guess is that few programs actually operate with a net profit.

I guess my question would be, how much money does the NCAA actually net? I haven't done the research on it...so I'm really not sure. I'm guessing that the higher ups at the NCAA get fat checks. But that's not strange in any type of non-profit.

Yes, they make a ton of money on football and basketball. But how much are they making on the women's lacrosse National Championship tournament? How much are they making on the cross country National Championship? I always thought that, just as with the member schools, the revenue from football and basketball helped to keep the other sports afloat. On top of the that, the NCAA gives out scholarships. I know they bring in a shitload of money. But in order to keep their non-profit status, they can't be holding on to all of that.